Is downgrading a card equal to closing from Citi's perspective?
#31
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,277
I can't say with certainty, but I do not believe it will have a negative effect for Chase 5/24. I have downgraded a Citi AA card and converted another to a doublecash card and my credit report did not show closed cards or new cards, instead the converted cards kept the history of the previous card.
You could confirm with the CSR prior to making the conversion.
You could confirm with the CSR prior to making the conversion.
As a side note: The conversion of my Costco Amex to a Costco Citi card did not show as a new card, either. I'm actually not sure where it is on my credit report at the moment.
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
Downgrading is NOT closing/opening an "account".
The "account" stays the same and the "age of the account" is not impacted. The only thing that is closed and opened are the credit cards. Big difference between "account" and "credit card".
Example:
1) Downgrade Dividend to Double Cash. Account intact. Account age intact. Dividend card gone, Double Cash appears. New card number if necessary.
2) Close Dividend, apply for new Double Cash. Account terminated. New account created. Dividend card gone, Double Cash appears. New card number.
The "account" stays the same and the "age of the account" is not impacted. The only thing that is closed and opened are the credit cards. Big difference between "account" and "credit card".
Example:
1) Downgrade Dividend to Double Cash. Account intact. Account age intact. Dividend card gone, Double Cash appears. New card number if necessary.
2) Close Dividend, apply for new Double Cash. Account terminated. New account created. Dividend card gone, Double Cash appears. New card number.
#33
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 30
What datapoint?
I've only ever heard one person say they actually put this to the test. Everything else I've read has been an assertion of what the writer believed, not a true data point from experience. And the one exception might have been bluffing just to get me to stop questioning conventional wisdom... I don't plan to be the guinea pig because I don't want to reset my clock inadvertently, but unless someone does really try, let's not just assume we know the answer. Citi's IT is weird and full of surprises, after all.
#34
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: stl
Programs: AA LT Plat/8.1mm now with 1350 miles left in my account and proud of it.. SPG LT Titanium.
Posts: 3,079
Here is my experience:
Last month I upgraded my Aa $95 card to an executive card so I could retain admirals club privileges. According to them, no hard pull and my card number and credit line stayed exactly the same. At the same time, I explained that I no longer needed the Prestige card after the benefit change ( I have a CSR and an Amex plat) but didn't want to outright cancel the card. They said at the one year anniversary which was on the 17 th I could convert it to whatever I want.
They called yesterday to remind me and today I converted to the no fee 2% cash back card. Again no hard pull but a new card number although the prestige will still work until I activate the new card when it arrives. In both cases the new account showed up on citi.com while I was still on the phone with the rep.
So to answer the question I don't believe so as there was no approval process or credit pull on either the upgrade or downgrade.
Last month I upgraded my Aa $95 card to an executive card so I could retain admirals club privileges. According to them, no hard pull and my card number and credit line stayed exactly the same. At the same time, I explained that I no longer needed the Prestige card after the benefit change ( I have a CSR and an Amex plat) but didn't want to outright cancel the card. They said at the one year anniversary which was on the 17 th I could convert it to whatever I want.
They called yesterday to remind me and today I converted to the no fee 2% cash back card. Again no hard pull but a new card number although the prestige will still work until I activate the new card when it arrives. In both cases the new account showed up on citi.com while I was still on the phone with the rep.
So to answer the question I don't believe so as there was no approval process or credit pull on either the upgrade or downgrade.
#35
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 2,272
I'm surprised people are even debating about this. It was made crystal clear to me by Citi that a product change counts as an account closure and resets the bonus clock. There was no hesitation. They made that very very clear to me. It doesn't matter if its a downgrade to same product family or whatever. Went through this with my AA exec card when I downgraded it to a AA plat card.
#36
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: BA Silver; Hilton Gold; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,811
I'm surprised people are even debating about this. It was made crystal clear to me by Citi that a product change counts as an account closure and resets the bonus clock. There was no hesitation. They made that very very clear to me. It doesn't matter if its a downgrade to same product family or whatever. Went through this with my AA exec card when I downgraded it to a AA plat card.
#37
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP , Delta Gold Medallion, "Credit Card" status for various hotels
Posts: 672
I'm surprised people are even debating about this. It was made crystal clear to me by Citi that a product change counts as an account closure and resets the bonus clock. There was no hesitation. They made that very very clear to me. It doesn't matter if its a downgrade to same product family or whatever. Went through this with my AA exec card when I downgraded it to a AA plat card.
#38
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 89
TPG has now clarified with Citi that any time the card number remains the same with the product change, your 24-month clock will not reset and you’ll continue to be eligible for a new bonus. The implication is that if you do get a new card number, the clock will reset and you’ll have to wait 24-months.
#39
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: MSP
Programs: UR, RR, MileagePLus, Dividend Miles (R.I.P), AAdvantage, HHonors, IHG, Skymiles
Posts: 108
Oh, how I love finding out about new restrictions and finding out I'm grandfathered into the restricted status. Even better is finding confirmation of a restriction after I've fallen victim to it!
Not long before the 24 month open/close rule began, I downgraded a Citi AA Plat to a Bronze. When the new rule started I diligently waited for over 25 months. In the meantime, all Bronze cards were converted to MileUp cards involuntarily. At the time I wondered if this screwed me over on the 24 month clock. When I applied for a new AA Plat in October, I noticed the language on the application said the MileUp card was an exception to the 24 month clock. Foolishly assuming that something with Citi made sense, I figured the exception was in there exactly for cases like mine of automatic MileUp conversions.
1.5 months after hitting the bonus spend and there was no bonus. I made a few calls. Two Citi reps in a row were clueless and the second connected me to the AAdvantage rep, who looked at my spending and card history and said there was no reason I shouldn't get the bonus. She said my last statement closed right before the 8 week mark in spending, so I should wait until the March statement closed. That happened, and still no bonus points. Now I suspect that even though the involuntary conversion was to a card that was specifically mentioned as an exception, their system sees a closure of the Bronze card. Tricky devils!
I've searched around but couldn't find any confirmed examples with the same situation. Any thoughts?
Not long before the 24 month open/close rule began, I downgraded a Citi AA Plat to a Bronze. When the new rule started I diligently waited for over 25 months. In the meantime, all Bronze cards were converted to MileUp cards involuntarily. At the time I wondered if this screwed me over on the 24 month clock. When I applied for a new AA Plat in October, I noticed the language on the application said the MileUp card was an exception to the 24 month clock. Foolishly assuming that something with Citi made sense, I figured the exception was in there exactly for cases like mine of automatic MileUp conversions.
1.5 months after hitting the bonus spend and there was no bonus. I made a few calls. Two Citi reps in a row were clueless and the second connected me to the AAdvantage rep, who looked at my spending and card history and said there was no reason I shouldn't get the bonus. She said my last statement closed right before the 8 week mark in spending, so I should wait until the March statement closed. That happened, and still no bonus points. Now I suspect that even though the involuntary conversion was to a card that was specifically mentioned as an exception, their system sees a closure of the Bronze card. Tricky devils!
I've searched around but couldn't find any confirmed examples with the same situation. Any thoughts?
#40
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 562
Oh, how I love finding out about new restrictions and finding out I'm grandfathered into the restricted status. Even better is finding confirmation of a restriction after I've fallen victim to it!
Not long before the 24 month open/close rule began, I downgraded a Citi AA Plat to a Bronze. When the new rule started I diligently waited for over 25 months. In the meantime, all Bronze cards were converted to MileUp cards involuntarily. At the time I wondered if this screwed me over on the 24 month clock. When I applied for a new AA Plat in October, I noticed the language on the application said the MileUp card was an exception to the 24 month clock. Foolishly assuming that something with Citi made sense, I figured the exception was in there exactly for cases like mine of automatic MileUp conversions.
1.5 months after hitting the bonus spend and there was no bonus. I made a few calls. Two Citi reps in a row were clueless and the second connected me to the AAdvantage rep, who looked at my spending and card history and said there was no reason I shouldn't get the bonus. She said my last statement closed right before the 8 week mark in spending, so I should wait until the March statement closed. That happened, and still no bonus points. Now I suspect that even though the involuntary conversion was to a card that was specifically mentioned as an exception, their system sees a closure of the Bronze card. Tricky devils!
I've searched around but couldn't find any confirmed examples with the same situation. Any thoughts?
Not long before the 24 month open/close rule began, I downgraded a Citi AA Plat to a Bronze. When the new rule started I diligently waited for over 25 months. In the meantime, all Bronze cards were converted to MileUp cards involuntarily. At the time I wondered if this screwed me over on the 24 month clock. When I applied for a new AA Plat in October, I noticed the language on the application said the MileUp card was an exception to the 24 month clock. Foolishly assuming that something with Citi made sense, I figured the exception was in there exactly for cases like mine of automatic MileUp conversions.
1.5 months after hitting the bonus spend and there was no bonus. I made a few calls. Two Citi reps in a row were clueless and the second connected me to the AAdvantage rep, who looked at my spending and card history and said there was no reason I shouldn't get the bonus. She said my last statement closed right before the 8 week mark in spending, so I should wait until the March statement closed. That happened, and still no bonus points. Now I suspect that even though the involuntary conversion was to a card that was specifically mentioned as an exception, their system sees a closure of the Bronze card. Tricky devils!
I've searched around but couldn't find any confirmed examples with the same situation. Any thoughts?
TPG has now clarified with Citi that any time the card number remains the same with the product change, your 24-month clock will not reset and you’ll continue to be eligible for a new bonus. The implication is that if you do get a new card number, the clock will reset and you’ll have to wait 24-months.
Last edited by gq_dq; Jun 15, 2019 at 10:52 am