DallasEsq

"Fraud" and "abuse" are completely different standards, and if "abuse" is in the T&C I think that would strengthen Citi's position. "Abuse" is a more flexible term while "fraud" is quite easy to define in this context. It doesn't sound like "abuse" was used in the T&C though by the agents' statements along the lines of calling the behavior fraudulent.

DallasEsq

I don't see how you can deceive or trick someone who created the terms you both agreed to. Your example isn't fraud either; you purchased 10 beverages to get a free one (unless the fraud was them charging you 10 cents for something you could get for free at a water fountain.)

DallasEsq

Nice job! But I must ask, are you from California, since Citi "totally confiscated" your points?

virmaior

I don't see how there could be a mole among those of us involved in the drafting. We all post regularly here at Citi and most of has suffered account closures.

PointsforHolidayBoy

Yup - from Cali. It didn't confiscate all my points, but probably shortly will. If you read the bottom of the letter - you'll see they didn't take my points.

xlax

I think y'all totally missed his point, but I might could be wrong.

xlax (from California )

PointsforHolidayBoy

I get it now - "totally."

Anyways, I can't access my citi accounts online, but the phone rep said my cards are still active.

My e-petition was emailed to various federal agencies, the Citi CEO, and the LA and NY Times.

silver6054

Not sure how effective this could be, but check to see if your House/Senate members are on the banking committees, then write to them as a constituent:

Senate: http://www.banking.senate.gov/public...ion.Membership

House: http://financialservices.house.gov/about/members.htm

Bean

What is the consensus regarding gift cards purchased with Citi TY points? Are they relatively safe and free from deactivation if Citi shuts you down?

I ask because I have two $100 Bestbuy cards that I plan to convert to Amazon credit, but have not yet done so...

ddavid1101

I have done 2 rounds of BB conversion to Amazon over the last month.

One I did same day that I received, the other I did yesterday and received Wednesday.

I would not wait too long.

PointsforHolidayBoy

When I first started the idea of this petition, my Thank You account was still active. Personally, I didn't spend crazy amounts on my card, about $5K a month. But when I saw what Citi was doing, I acted quickly and with German blitz. I could not just watch what was happening to others, without realizing, the threat was also one step away from me. A day later, my self-prophesying proved correct for me and is a harbinger for more to come.

If Citi gets away with this - don't think Amex and Chase won't follow in this practice. The two other big players right now are in a win - win position, while watching Citi. If Citi gets taken down because of their practices, Amex and Chase will be more competitive. If Citi prevails, they have new industry standards to fall back on. Think about that for a second and the future it shapes for all of us.

These credit card companies spend millions in advertising. Sending this link to your friends has the reverse effect and for no cost to us. For every person who reads what Citi is doing, Citi loses money. Perhaps, it's 10 cents a customer, but that does ding and cost Citi. Finally - it halts Citi's cloak-and-dagger strategy, in which it most likely did not anticipate for its unethical behavior to be revealed. See FrequentMiler's most recent post on how a tactic in this type of strategy materializes against us: http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...delivers-news/

Furthermore - sending this to your contacts is a much more powerful form of communication than mass marketing. You give them both information and expose illegal practices. Such accountability measures cost Citi, but also puts credit card companies on notice for executing such strategies. In short, it tells them we are not helpless. And we are not.

Anyways, once again, I've been really impressed with everyone who has helped. It's given me hope once again in the common person's willingness to not be a victim and stand up against bullying, albeit the corporate type.

http://www.change.org/petitions/citi...-card-services

silver6054

Chase have already done this. See, for example

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...0-000-urs.html

At least one participant in that is suing in Small Claims Court.

Marathon Man

methinks is one word.


Ok... firstly, I just sent the petition link to about 300+ people. I have friends and contacts in the legal and media worlds, and also involved with corporate causes. I think people should get on this even if not YET affected because it's possible this could happen to you too!

Even as we know the CSR who told Happy said that buying a GC was fraud, we know that is wrong. Therefore, we believe that Citi could say and do almost ANYTHING to 'get' people--and target just about anyone- it thinks are abusers when they are the abusers!

You used your CC for what it says can be done. If you abused it you would have heard from the managers and clerks at the stores where you try to buy things. Like if CVS says $1k LIMIT on VRs and you try to buy say $3k. That may be seen as an abuse of that store rule or a breach of its policy... BUTTTTTT Citi sets no limits so where is the abuse!!!

How do you define it?!!!

As for the checks... if you got them and cashed them, no one knows how you later decided to use the checks nor do they ever have to know. You ordered them for yourself and they are yours as they mail them. If they send out bad checks, that alone is a means to take legal action. Again--and I brought it up before: If I wrote you a check for $1000 and then it bounced and I refused to give you closure, what would you do to me? So what do you think SC court is for? Who cares WHY I wrote you the check... fact is we agreed to something and I sent it to you upon that earlier agreement. if I backtrack now, well I really should have communicated with you before.

You got a check from someone and you cashed it. period.

Sign that petition now floating. And yes do try the AGO first and then sue citi. Especially if they try to clawback checks.

They are bad news people. yes, in this TYP thing they are really baddd. All we did was be creative and do what they told us to do: use the card for everything and earn no limits of TYP! Even the bank manager of the branch where I got my most recent citi card told me he uses it for EVERYTHING he does... And there's a drug store next to his branch... and he was sipping a Starbucks coffee which MAY mean he bought a Starbucks GC there to later use at the nearest starbucks, right?... ya never know!


And one thing I think I saw in here is someone wondering a GC they bought will be bad if bought on a Citi card. Any GC that has been purchased and activated in the store where you bought it is good to go. use it. If there are issues, go to the store first. KEEP your receipts! Always. until said GC is fully burned. And then still keep it all--including the GC when you can.

PointsforHolidayBoy

Can somebody send me a good quality and thoughtful picture of a cut (canceled or numbers blanked out) Thank You credit card, so I can put it on the petition site?

Andy2

But in the larger scheme of things, surely you cannot think that what Citi is doing here is even remotely justified, do you?

Individuals are legally purchasing products legally sold by CVS using their credit card. Citi responds by closing credit card accounts and nullifying reward accounts that contain points that are not associated with the purchase of the "questionable" product.

That cannot be acceptable to anyone, can it? That kind of action is a direct attack on all consumers, since it is virtually impossible to get through life without a credit card. Ultimately, credit card companies do not really like FT'ers and FW'ers because we make a profit off of the credit card companies, and the credit card companies want it to be the other way around. But the solution cannot be that the credit card companies can get rid of us just because they want to do so. Imagine a world in which we must decide how much interest to pay the credit card companies in order to avoid arbitrary cancellation and seizure of our assets (such as Thank You points).