Citi cards closed, TYP confiscated, reasons not disclosed.
May 30, 2013, 4:15 pm
#946
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: AA PLT 2MM
Posts: 2,026
I was actually told that because of my TY cards were closed by Security Dept due to "Fraud", Citi has the right to confiscate all my TYPs.
I did get the definition of "Fraud" on this last phone call they made to me, and that Citi would confiscate any points in the accounts once it determines "Fraud" is involved - and the GC purchase is singled out as "Fraud" activity.
If this ever goes to any form of arbitration / small claim court, Citi would need to show its definition of "Fraud" with accounts charges less than 3% of total credit line at the bank, always paid in full and early, always in good standing. They would need to justify buying 2 GCs is committing "Fraud" when it is not defined in writing anywhere in the card's agreements, TY program rules, anywhere. Citi cannot just hide behind the "Fraud" term being used. It has to define it. If they define it as the way this woman did to me over the phone, when they are defending their action in an arbitration or in a court room, I believer they would have some issue to justify buying 2 GCs at a drugstore would be committing "Fraud" even if the card earns retention offer bonus points. My hunch is, I would NOT see the reason conveyed over the phone in the letter she sends.
I did get the definition of "Fraud" on this last phone call they made to me, and that Citi would confiscate any points in the accounts once it determines "Fraud" is involved - and the GC purchase is singled out as "Fraud" activity.
If this ever goes to any form of arbitration / small claim court, Citi would need to show its definition of "Fraud" with accounts charges less than 3% of total credit line at the bank, always paid in full and early, always in good standing. They would need to justify buying 2 GCs is committing "Fraud" when it is not defined in writing anywhere in the card's agreements, TY program rules, anywhere. Citi cannot just hide behind the "Fraud" term being used. It has to define it. If they define it as the way this woman did to me over the phone, when they are defending their action in an arbitration or in a court room, I believer they would have some issue to justify buying 2 GCs at a drugstore would be committing "Fraud" even if the card earns retention offer bonus points. My hunch is, I would NOT see the reason conveyed over the phone in the letter she sends.
May 30, 2013, 4:16 pm
#947
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: AA PLT 2MM
Posts: 2,026
Oh...
And if Citi is so very much concerned that 'buying gift cards constitutes fraud'. Why the hell are they hocking them themselves?
https://online.citibank.com/US/JRS/p...D=AmexGiftCard
And if Citi is so very much concerned that 'buying gift cards constitutes fraud'. Why the hell are they hocking them themselves?
https://online.citibank.com/US/JRS/p...D=AmexGiftCard
May 30, 2013, 4:21 pm
#948
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Why i didnt get shut down yet?...
They probably tried to track Happy down by her FT handle, but thought they found me instead and shut me down in advance but it turned out to be Happy hahahahaha
"Sorry Happy they were looking for me, but I sent them a picture of a Hawaiian tropic model instead and they found you!"
Lol
They probably tried to track Happy down by her FT handle, but thought they found me instead and shut me down in advance but it turned out to be Happy hahahahaha
"Sorry Happy they were looking for me, but I sent them a picture of a Hawaiian tropic model instead and they found you!"
Lol
May 30, 2013, 4:22 pm
#949
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Oh...
And if Citi is so very much concerned that 'buying gift cards constitutes fraud'. Why the hell are they hocking them themselves?
https://online.citibank.com/US/JRS/p...D=AmexGiftCard
And if Citi is so very much concerned that 'buying gift cards constitutes fraud'. Why the hell are they hocking them themselves?
https://online.citibank.com/US/JRS/p...D=AmexGiftCard
May 30, 2013, 4:37 pm
#951
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Does that make me a bad person?
May 30, 2013, 4:37 pm
#952
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
Wasn't implying you were offered that. Just sharing my story of how recording the conversation with these guys help.
Which is why it would have been awesome had you been recording this call. Oh well, maybe someone will get them to say it again while it's being recorded.
Which is why it would have been awesome had you been recording this call. Oh well, maybe someone will get them to say it again while it's being recorded.
Or I should go out to buy the recording device over the Memorial weekend and installed it.
Frankly I never expect she would actually call back after I saw my cards were shut down in the midst of the night before dawn on last Saturday.
Does anyone shut down has been called by Citi to inform them so?
May 30, 2013, 4:56 pm
#953
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
I will opine more later but a statement that the cards are closed for "fraud" is a very bold one and certainly a significant step forward, as it tells you exactly what line they will go down in pursuing this in court.
In terms of recording calls be very careful children. In most states it is ILLEGAL to record the call without permission. At best you want be able to use anything recorded as evidence, at worst you harm your case by breaking the law. If it's just to remind yourself what was said maybe but just be careful. I would suggest checking the law in your own state, google is your friend for this, and most likely if you say at the start of the call clearly and without giggling that you are recording the call and then hope one of these agents will continue to say something stupid anyway. I would suggest something along the lines of "I am recording this call to ensure I have a record of our communication pertaining to this matter"
Now I am having dinner tonight on west coast with an exceptional litigator at a prominent litigation firm who specializes in financial fraud. I am going to discuss this case with him in as much depth as I can. My biggest concern is there just isn't enough juice in this (i.e. not enough people shut down losing enough money) for it to be worth his time to take on the case. But I will see what interest he has, and frankly the guy is trying hard to get my business on some of the bigger corporate cases we are pursuing so he may be interested in doing it as a loss leader.
I know this is somewhat OT but I think another area where Citi is really vulnerable is in the cash advance fees it charges when you make purchases in financial institutions. I have had this happen to me and they have refused to waive. I am guessing the sums here nationally are much, much larger, but the similarity is there is absolutely nothing in the contractual terms and conditions that allow it. In the one case I had I escalated to a supervisor and demanded they clearly showed me where in the contract it states that a purchase from a financial institution will be subject to cash advance fees. She was unable to do so and kept referring to the cash advance language. I can't recall the exact language but it was not very strong from Citi's perspective. I only raise this because this is something a class action litigator might take on given I would guess there are millions of dollars of damages, spanning years of time on cards that were issued before the arbitration clauses were added. So this could be the case that they might be more interested in taking on, with the TYP fiasco a side interest to wind up Citi in the meantime
In terms of recording calls be very careful children. In most states it is ILLEGAL to record the call without permission. At best you want be able to use anything recorded as evidence, at worst you harm your case by breaking the law. If it's just to remind yourself what was said maybe but just be careful. I would suggest checking the law in your own state, google is your friend for this, and most likely if you say at the start of the call clearly and without giggling that you are recording the call and then hope one of these agents will continue to say something stupid anyway. I would suggest something along the lines of "I am recording this call to ensure I have a record of our communication pertaining to this matter"
Now I am having dinner tonight on west coast with an exceptional litigator at a prominent litigation firm who specializes in financial fraud. I am going to discuss this case with him in as much depth as I can. My biggest concern is there just isn't enough juice in this (i.e. not enough people shut down losing enough money) for it to be worth his time to take on the case. But I will see what interest he has, and frankly the guy is trying hard to get my business on some of the bigger corporate cases we are pursuing so he may be interested in doing it as a loss leader.
I know this is somewhat OT but I think another area where Citi is really vulnerable is in the cash advance fees it charges when you make purchases in financial institutions. I have had this happen to me and they have refused to waive. I am guessing the sums here nationally are much, much larger, but the similarity is there is absolutely nothing in the contractual terms and conditions that allow it. In the one case I had I escalated to a supervisor and demanded they clearly showed me where in the contract it states that a purchase from a financial institution will be subject to cash advance fees. She was unable to do so and kept referring to the cash advance language. I can't recall the exact language but it was not very strong from Citi's perspective. I only raise this because this is something a class action litigator might take on given I would guess there are millions of dollars of damages, spanning years of time on cards that were issued before the arbitration clauses were added. So this could be the case that they might be more interested in taking on, with the TYP fiasco a side interest to wind up Citi in the meantime
May 30, 2013, 5:00 pm
#954
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Im already passionately heated up over this and have not yet been shut down. But yah when i am, watchhhhhhhhh out citi!!!!
I just hope people here are not jealous of others who have somehow gotten past this... Again, im already miffed at the way citi treats its customers regardless of if they ever nab me.
Happy why not call that lady back to see if she will repeat what she said and try to record it this time! Cant hurt to try, right? You could say you just wanted to have something clarified. Might work.
I just hope people here are not jealous of others who have somehow gotten past this... Again, im already miffed at the way citi treats its customers regardless of if they ever nab me.
Happy why not call that lady back to see if she will repeat what she said and try to record it this time! Cant hurt to try, right? You could say you just wanted to have something clarified. Might work.
May 30, 2013, 5:02 pm
#955
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
I applied for it in my last app-o-rama and got turned down for too many inquiries. I have written to the exec office to appeal and am awaiting their response!!!!
May 30, 2013, 5:06 pm
#956
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Also about my idea of giggling while mumbling that you may record it. I find if you tell a csr you want to record them, most have to end the call. This is not fair and so you end up basically telling them you opt out of hearing them.
So my method SAYS you are recording it but they may not really have paid attention but they are recording it too so in affect there is proof you told them. Amd as they now go forward with the call, they have now given consent. Yes its a trick but it works.
Finally if you just record it for your uses--ie to recant exactly what a csr said-- then i doubt theres much wrong with that since youre sharing the recording with no one.
Again im no lawyer and thats all why!
So my method SAYS you are recording it but they may not really have paid attention but they are recording it too so in affect there is proof you told them. Amd as they now go forward with the call, they have now given consent. Yes its a trick but it works.
Finally if you just record it for your uses--ie to recant exactly what a csr said-- then i doubt theres much wrong with that since youre sharing the recording with no one.
Again im no lawyer and thats all why!
May 30, 2013, 5:08 pm
#957
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Well i got one better!!! I got paid 1,000,000 typ to work for citi to bring down ft
Lol
May 30, 2013, 5:14 pm
#959
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.
May 30, 2013, 5:26 pm
#960
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Oh one more thing - maybe its been asked:
If you were shut down, what was your spend and what was your cl?
Maybe its a factor of how many times you max and pay back in a statement period
If you were shut down, what was your spend and what was your cl?
Maybe its a factor of how many times you max and pay back in a statement period