Marathon Man

Indeed it does!
You know, all those friends and family and work mate you and i have that never understand us and therefore think we are scammers.

For all we know, citi planned on this being the majority notion

compddd

I agree with this. I've tried explaining it to them and 99% of them just don't get it.

PointsforHolidayBoy

By the way, when I signed up for my card, there was no arbitration clause. I was told that an arbitration clause was UNILATERALLY (meaning without my consent) put into my contract in April. Then the witchhunt started by Citi in May.

In short, (just passed the Cali bar with flying colors), my arbitration clause is non-binding on me. Anyways, I don't know if lawsuits are the most effective way to initiate change anyways, unless media attention is focused on it.

That's why I like the petition idea better.

OK - I'm UP FOR IT! I'm going to write a petition, and I'm going to rely on the people on this forum, the bloggers, and everyone to help me get it out there. I mean - really this is ridiculous what Citi is doing. I mean, sure there are people definitely abusing their perks, which is unconscionable. But - how is it they could take advantage of the weaker by charging usury interest rates? And then, when we get the better end of the stick for their bad risk assessment, we get punished too?

Marathon Man

The key is this: do you (each of yiz) believe what you did/bought was ok?

If you have any doubts then you should not have even gotten the card.

I know what i did was ok. I followed their tcs and my gift cards and vrs have been the form of payment to my contractor who is helping to rebuild my house. If buying at 5x to use the gc later to pay someone is a crime then something is wrong.

As for arbitration and the like, i believe that citi planned to do this now and thus set many of us up.

supergrandslam

+1 but it's too late for me

Marathon Man

Id say go for it. Either you get the miles or you dont. And imo all things citi AA are better designed and run by a dif dept that typ so its possible the witch hunt doesnt go there. Its only 1x on AA anyway so they may not even see it.

Again, is there anything wrong w buying vr?

RedCobra

It seems possible even airline miles could be clawed back since they're deposited electronically. At this point I wouldn't put anything past these m0+#3r fv{&3r$. Way less likely with gift cards which are hard-loaded on to physical media and done through a third party. My last statement printed 5/9 and I redeemed for WM GCs. They arrived on 5/20, exactly 4 days before TSHTF, and I've used several already with no issue.

gv111

What you, I or anybody else here thinks is irrelevant. What Citi thinks is relevant and they seem to think there is something wrong . In any case redeem your TY points ASAP. Good luck!

Marathon Man

Yah i thought of that. If i cant get the exact flights i want ill just get a ton of home depot gcs instead. Can use. My wmt ones came fast and worked fine already

You are correct. Our jobs in court is to get the judge to side with our argument though, not theirs. Thats the point of court or mediation

silver6054

Re adding arbitration: often there is a clause something like "use of the card after xxx signifies agreement..." but I don't see such a thing in the latest Citi arbitration modification (effective June 15) so who knows.

Happy

Nothing in writing received yet. Some bogus reasons were cited on the phone including one related to multiple TY cards, totally ignore the fact that 1) different card types - Premier, Preferred and Professional. 2) The Origins of the Preferred started in 2006 and 2008 from 2 different cards that were converted, including one started out as an AMEX TY card that Citi discontinued. Even having AU on 2 TY cards was being used as an excuse for the dislike by Citi as to earn bonus points. I never know having an AU can earn bonus points from Citi, as that never happens to me! GC purchases at CVS was cited but the person said she would take into the consideration of how little I had purchased. Sadly I did not have phone recording facility on my end.

As late as on Friday around 2:30pm Sioux Falls time, I was told over the phone by the person at President's Office, that she "would not make a decision to whether she would unfreeze my TY account until Next Week." and she supposedly would then call me back on that decision.

Of course that has turned out to be a blatant lie.

Happy

We are not even in June yet with this new wave of shut down probably starting Thur or Fri.

silver6054

Yes, I know, just saying that the latest communication I received from Citi has no opt-out language. For other changes, you often get told you can close the card and continue under existing terms and conditions (although that usually ends when the balance is paid off, not sure how it would apply to potential law suites!)

lkar

South Dakota law is pretty favorable with respect to card agreement changes being binding if the customer leaves the account open after the change.

South Dakota law, in general, is pretty protective of citi. Not surprising.

To me, the legal issues are harsdly cut and dry here, but they come down to a few major issues. They include: Is the thankyou t&c binding, even though it is not part of the card agreement, not part of the t&c disclosed when credit is offered, and a thank you account is opened for the customer automatically? Even if yes, since the thankyou t&c incorporate the sponsor account t&c, does this include the protections for notice on thank you rewards policies and redemptions of already transfered points? Is purchasing gcs "abuse" within the meaning of the t&c. And even if these questions are answered in citi's favor, such that there is no breach of contract claim, has citi engaged in an unfair or deceptive trade practice, among other ways by inducing spend, profiting therby, and then giving pretextual reasons to avoid its points liability for economic gain?

There are other esoteric issues out there. But these seem like the main ones.

Disclosure: don't take legal advice from the internet. None of this is legal advice. Just a guy ruminating about the various t&cs.

Alcibiades

Why does CITI need your consent for the arbitration clause to be binding on You ?