Hey, thanks for trying to keep it civil here. . .
 

Title kind of says it all. Right now, FT seems an extremely unfriendly place on tons of forums. It seems that most folks in the Choice forum try to give an answer, even to possibly obvious questions, and move on.

In other words, I'm again glad that the Choice forum is somewhat of a backwater and is definitely not the forum of choice (ha ha, ha ha) for those who just want to get into a fight. The information I've gotten from this forum has made travel easier (maybe not possible, but definitely easier) to a number of places I might never have visited otherwise.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of thought that's what FT was supposed to be all about.

<old geezer hat on>

Ah, you should have been around in the old days. Plenty of help, all angelic folks. We all chipped in with well-thought-out advice and the recipients were damned glad to get it!

Kids nowadays ...

</old geezer hat off>

^ :cool:.

Didn't think it was ever really that idyllic, but there's no doubt a frost in the relations around some of the community nowadays. I'm kind of thinking the nature of Choice denizens somewhat limits the DYKWIA effect amongst posters. We're more like Joe Fridays: "Just give me the facts, ma'am."

But maybe more like the Dan Ackroyd Joe than the Jack Webb. . .

You got your first response in this thread from my first hotel program guru-san. :D

Most of the hotel programs on FT used to be pretty hospitable to all, but that is more history than present reality. This part of the FT hotel programs section remains what it was but even a bit better.

It's also helped by the nature of the program. Who's going to complain about an excess of Choice Privileges elites diluting elite benefits, when (other than the longer window for booking award rooms), there are very few?

I blame this forum, though, for my reaction when Mrs. Ispolkom said that we should go to Scandinavia. My very first thought was: isn't that a great place for great values on Choice Hotels?

True about that--I've only been recognized as an elite once despite evidence that this must matter to someone within Choice or at individual properties because every survey about a stay I've ever gotten includes a question about whether I was recognized as an elite upon check-in.

I would say, however, that the chances are very good that there is a correlation between Choice's lack of elite benefits and the type of folks attracted to the program. If you're looking for value (and as you've noted, some great redemptions), you're probably not going to sweat whether a hotel has a bottle of water waiting for you when you get to your room. And I have to laugh a bit about getting free wifi and breakfast as a Gold at Hiltons when everybody gets that at most Choice properties--although I will admit that the full breakfast I've received at some Hilton properties beats the pants off anything I've seen at most Choice hotels.

Oh yeah - I've received some great breakfasts at Hiltons and Marriotts. But consider ...

Hilton/Marriott = $179/night + $10 for Wifi = comfortable night, great breakfast.

Choice = $60/night + $0 Wifi = comfortable night plus enough savings to pay for the best damn breakfast you'll ever see with cash left over. And enough change to pay for the paper you really want to read. :)

Unless you can LNF (BRG) Marriott into Choice-type rates. I do that all the time now, to the point where I got to Marriott Plat with that (plus the 15 night boost from the Chase Marriott Premier Visa) last year, and it was the first year I didn't requalify for Diamond at Choice. Yet I was paying about the same.

(This works at Marriot, and apparently only well at Marriott, because Marriott gives 25% off the third-party rate, instead of a free night, and thus there's no cap on LNFs at Marriott, while there is on BRGs from all programs which give you your a free night when you find a BRG. I need 3 nights a week, so only a BRG that's highly repeatable helps me.)

And with (Gold+) status, the wifi is free at Marriott too.

OTOH, the free breakfast at Marriotts (in the US) is weekdays only...

Melding with the DYKWIA part of this thread and the atmosphere at hotels far above the demographic Choice wants is today's post from Ric Garrido:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyalt...problem-is-me/

I had never thought this through before, and while ignoring the cost of all the little things for which luxury hotels charge (hard to ignore, I know, because by the end of a stay, those costs may be substantial), I recognized myself in his comments about his reactions to the atmosphere itself, especially when I'm traveling solo. The multitude of staff really means that I won't be left alone when I get back to my hotel, but I generally don't want or need that attention--just let me get to my room. On the other hand, I think I probably have slightly less of that feeling when I'm traveling with someone else, whether a girlfriend or work colleagues.

Could it be that I like the recognition when there's someone else around to see that I'm getting it? In other words, is there a bit of DYKWIA in me that I don't like to acknowledge? :o

^This my travel is on my dime.

There is certainly some value in the Choice program for sophisticated travellers who don't always need 4-star hotels. I get my points from the annual Daily Getaways promo (which is sadly being swamped by folks who don't actually want to stay at Choice hotels), and it works well for me at that price point.

Of course, Choice isn't really catering to "sophisticated" travellers. If they were, breakfast would certainly be better! But I'm happy enough glomming on to the "middle America" crowd who thinks a waffle machine makes a good meal.

Because the fact remains that Choice generally delivers what I need when I crash at their properties: a clean, decent room, and free amenities that I use (internet, breakfast, phone, etc.). I generally save the fancy, expensive chains for when the hotel property is an integral part of the trip (like to a resort). Because, honestly, do you need a 4-star hotel at an airport when you arrive at 10 pm and are leaving at 8? And when you're visiting a European city and won't be doing anything at the hotel except sleeping? I just can't see blowing a lot more money on a hotel room where I can't even get breakfast downstairs at a price I'm willing to pay.

Of course, without Tripadvisor, I probably couldn't use this chain because, sadly, a high percentage of their properties are sketchy and I need a pretty reliable system for avoiding those places.

As I've said before, I use Choice as an "earn here, redeem there" program, with most of my redemptions in Europe. I'm hopeful for a return of the stay twice, earn 8K points after the brief winter respite we got. Given the frequent 8-10K redemptions at some Choice properties in Europe, those promotions are outstanding. Of course, with the developments announced recently across other hotel programs, I'm anticipating the cheap European redemptions will eventually go away and maybe the generous earning opportunities as well (double points instead of 8K for 2 stays?), but I'll enjoy this ride while it lasts.

Choice is fine in small towns and mid-sized cities; TripAdvisor or some other source you can find reliable is helpful to separate the wheat from the chaff in mid-sized cities and absolutely necessary when you're talking about a property in a top 10 city.

Your math isn't always right on this. I've stayed at plenty of Hilton Garden Inns and even full Hiltons for around $129. The Wifi is free for Gold members, and the HGI breakfast is GREAT.

Many times the choice hotels cost more than $80 and sometimes more than $90. And given the choice between paying $90 for a Quality Inn or $130 for a Hilton Garden Inn I'll usually take the latter.

That doesn't mean I don't stay at Choice hotels sometimes. They just aren't always priced low enough to justify the lower quality.

Oh sure.

I've stayed at Fairfield Inns where I negotiated the rate to $35/night. And I've stayed at EconoLodges at $28/night. The numbers given weren't meant to be factually representative, just using them for the sake of example.

There's also a difference regarding: who pays. All my travel comes out of my own pocket (right coach?) and I tend to be on the road every week. So, a $20 difference in nightly rate X 4 or 5 nights X 50 weeks amounts to a considerable chunk of change. If Big Friendly Company picks up the tab, well, I tend to be a little more discriminating. :)

Isn't always right? I can concede that. Is it generally right? You know it.

Of course, now you bring personal taste into the equation. If you're willing to pay $40 more for an HGI, then that works for you and no one can question that. On the other hand, tonight I could have chosen an HGI located 12 miles away from the beach and paid $120 or a Quality Inn in a good location on the Virginia Beach oceanfront (and a former Hilton to boot) for $65.

And from the point of view of leveraging a hotel loyalty program to get free nights? Even before Hilton's recent changes, it was a challenge to earn a free night off staying at Hilton properties. My earnings for my last three nights at a Doubletree property, even with the Double Points promotion currently running--5000 points. A night at the HGI I just mentioned and before any changes go into effect from the recently announced "enhancements" to Hilton's program? 35K. So, for just another 18 nights, I can get one night at a mid-level HGI--unless I want a one-bedroom suite at the HGI, in which case I'll have to spend over 60K points. Not to worry, that's only another 15 nights.

In the Choice program, all rooms available on points are generally available for the same point cost--a room for one, a room for two, a suite for a family. And we're getting spoiled by Choice's decision to make their go-to promotion "stay two, get 8K points." As noted throughout this forum, for significant portions of the year, 8K will get you a room at a lot of properties around the world. I'm going to Italy in three weeks. For 48K points, I'll get five nights in properties in and around Rome. If done under the 8K promotion, that's 12 nights of hotel stays to earn those points.

Both Hilton and Choice have made some changes to their programs in the past year. Choice introduced a new 30K redemption level. For purely Choice redemptions, 30K is the highest you'll pay (there's an association with the Preferred Hotel Group, not a Choice chain, that requires more--but even there, 60K is the top of the heap). Hilton? Well, let's put it this way, if you want an HGI in New York City, be prepared to pay a minimum of 60K and with their new, seasonal pricing, as much as 80K.

Is Choice elegant? Almost always, certainly not (again, that association with PHG is the big exception). I know from my experience in Rome last year that the Comfort Inn Bolivar is certainly not that: Hotel Bolivar. But, can I efficiently earn enough Choice points to fund travel at comfortable hotels in a lot of properties in countries outside the US I might not have otherwise tried? You bet.

I currently have 340K Hilton points and 170K Choice points (with the deduction already done for my Rome stays next month). I'll guarantee you that my Choice points will get me much further than my Hilton points.