Beijing -> Shanghai. Fly or train?
 

First, I don't know chinese... next... trip is end of Nov.

It seems like a bit of twisted fun to try and get a train ticket ahead of time without a big fee. Being my first trip to the far east I would like to be prepared with tickets. I am trying to weigh out which is a better choice, train or air. The girl friend says she wants a deluxe soft sleeper room "for her safety". I've traveled on horrible Russian trains and am not too concerned with this, but I guess it should weigh in on the decision.

So looks like $160 or so each for deluxe sleeper through ChinaTripAdvisor to get something ahead of time (maybe?). Saves hotel, so $320 each total.

Found flights on ctrip.com for $228 total for both (7:30am flight - China Air), but that would require extra night hotel in Beijing for about $150 at the place we are, so $378.

Pretty comparable in price, but I'd really like to know which is the better choice from those that have done both.

1) I could see the airport being stressful for a 7:30am flight. Arrive 6am? Not morning people!
2) Train seems like it would be much more scenic (but possibly dark out the whole time since it leaves at 7pm?)
3) Are the deluxe soft sleepers as good as they seem from pictures I am finding online?
4) What are the chances of not getting a deluxe soft sleeper after all?

Thanks!!

I think you are talking about those cabin with only 2 beds, are you?

They are alright, and enough privacy for two of you and very safe. You won't be able to see anything becasue of the dark outside, except seeing the sun raise will be nice on the train if the weather is good.

Train stations are all in city centres, and airports (especially PEK) are a bit further away. So you need to calculate taxi cost as well, it seems you are quite price sensitive.

For me, I would go for the flight, it save me time (I only do business trips in China, not as a tourist, so time is important to me), and one night in the hotel will get me extra hotel points :)

If you are not converned of both, and want to enjoy a different experience, train is an excellent option on this route.

Soft sleeper curent prices AFAIK are 439RMB for upper bed, 499RMB for lower bed on the Z train and per direction.

Chinese trains have a lot of staff including security people and I have never had anything stolen from me nor have I heard that happening to others on the upscale trains (D and Z).

Just helped someone purchase soft sleeper tickets during the Chinese mid-Autumn holidays when travel peaked and he was still able to snatch those beds.

Speaking as someone who has done both, I didn't find the train too bad. We had a 4 berth deluxe sleeper cabin and managed to get a good 6 hours sleep. You'll need to take your own food though as the onboard catering is a little limited.
Air China was fine as far as flights go, (we also got the 0730 - had to be out of the hotel at 0615) but the food was pretty awful. PEK airport was excellent, and we flew to SHA rather than PVG - so much closer to the city but the taxi ride for both needed to be factored in.

All in all, the train is pretty good value (probably not the thing to say on a frequent flier forum, I'll get ejected now!), but you have to understand that deluxe is not necessarily as deluxe as the western view. Lack of Mandarin is not always a problem, there's normally someone around who can help and the stations have all the signs in English and Chinese and are pretty easy to get around.^

AS for worry number 4 - not a problem as you are allocated a berth/cabin on your ticket from the outset.

I would disagree a bit about the catering issue. Chinese trains have one the largest variety of catering in the World, IMHO. From full meals to fresh fruit and everything in-between.

Mosberger, didn't see much evidence of that in the very small restaurant car I'm afraid. Perhaps there was another restaurant car that we didn't see, but we were warned by a local that it would be best if we took our own food (self catering seemed to be the order of the day in the other cabins we passed too!)

well maybe it depends on you, but for i prefer train than by plane to reach shanghai

I find an invaluable resource for info on train travel is the "Man in Seat 61" train website.

http://seat61.com/China.htm

Yep, I did find that site and it has been very helpful, but doesn't really compare train to flying as I would like.

Yes, referring to a 2berth cabin w/ bathroom. My girlfriend is just uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as two strangers really. I can understand a bit, but I consider my self a seasoned veteran of world travel for my age (27) and open to more adventure like a 4 or 6berth.

Good point on the taxi difference between airports and train stations. I hadn't thought about that!

I'm still leaning more towards the train because of less stress getting to the airport and all of that early in the morning. My main concern with the train though is actually getting tickets.

Do 2berth's sell out extremely quickly? Would we have a problem getting one if we had our hotel book it for us as soon as we got to Beijing (4 days prior to train departure).

Unless the terminology has changed recently, the "Deluxe" in deluxe soft sleeper means it's the 2-berth version instead of 4-berth. Doesn't mean it's more luxurious.

And I won't worry about availability. As you've found out, its barely competitive in price after you factor in hotel cost. For local Chinese, many won't be adding a hotel as they have residence in Shanghai or Beijing (or both). For them, flying is cheaper.

Plus, they run something like 5 Z trains, around 6 minutes from each other every night.

Unless things have changed during the past few months, the night trains are T trains and there is only one Z train that leaves in the mid morning.

Moondog - You are thinking about the 9hr 44min D train during the day with sitting only:

D31 11:05

There are still 5 non-stop 11-hr night trains:

Z21 19:32
Z13 19:38
Z7 19:44
Z1 19:56
Z5 20:02

Plus two slower 13-hr night trains, which may not have deluxe soft sleepers:

T109 20:14
T103 20:20

Oops, my bad.

We are thinking of the T109 . If no 2berth's for some reason then can switch to T103.

Right, we are fine with normal "luxury" level. Girlfriend just wants our own spot without strangers sleeping above us. It comes out of her shopping budget so, oh well! :) (don't tell her I said that!)

You want to take the Z trains, not the T. The T may not have the deluxe soft sleeper and I think they use older trainset. Also, the intermediate stops are not good for sleeping - you'll wake up.

Really no reason to take the Ts if you're going from Beijing to Shanghai.

That contradicts what I've read, specifically on seat61.com . It say the T is the only one that has the deluxe 2berth sleepers.

Hm... I just read that on seat61.com. Their information is probably up-to-date.

I can assure you that I have seen deluxe berths on Z trains (I'm back up to speed with the terminology now, thanks to rkkwan, so don't worry about that), though not on every train.

Back when I used to do the train commute on a regular basis, the most important criteria for me was the operating company. Basically, you want to get the Shanghai-based company because their trainsets are much nicer (to the extent that the availability of deluxe becomes moot). My favorite feature of these trains is the nice bar cars; you are bound to meet interesting people there and you can count on cold beer until around 11p (v. 930 on the rest).

It's been so long since I've taken a train that I can't offer any more specific advice regarding train numbers, but the people at the ticket window should be able to clue you in if you ask nicely (don't say directly that you want a SH train if you're buying in BJ because there is a lot of jealousy there; just ask what train is the most popular and go for it).

If you look at seat61.com about Beijing - Xian, deluxe soft sleeper is still offered on that Z train. I guess the regular soft sleeper between Beijing and Shanghai is just so much more popular than the deluxe, they decide to remove the deluxe on that train.

The cost for the deluxe is just not competitive with flying in most markets, contributing to low ridership. I know on the "direct" T trains between Hong Kong and Shanghai or Beijing that the deluxe are often empty.

Ok, this is good to know. Shouldn't be a problem getting a deluxe then.

So do all of you recommend getting the train tickets once we arrive in Beijing, or getting them now through a tour company at an inflated price?

The former, no question.

Thanks!

1) As soon as you arrive in Beijing, make arrangements to get the train tickets. I don't recommend wasting time at the station yourself--get your hotel to do it for a small add-on fee, or if you are near one of the satellite ticket offices go there for a no-hassle experience. If you have accommodations set up already, email them with your requirements and see if they will buy tickets for you and what the "commission" will be. Tickets only go on sale 5 or 10 days beforehand, and sleepers are always subject to selling out, so if you will not be in Beijing for long, an advance purchase by somebody local is a good idea.

2) There is no guarantee that a particular T train on a particular date will be carrying the deluxe soft sleepers, and you won't find out for sure until the day before, which is really gambling if you are on a fixed schedule. I personally would select a Z train and upper + lower berths in a standard soft sleeper compartment. It is safe and comfortable. Normally anybody else travelling soft-sleeper and sharing your compartment will be a solid middle-class type Chinese citizen or official, or perhaps other foreigners. Check out this thread for more detailed info, and in particular note the comments by poster "Ellyse", who is a friend of mine and one of the most experienced Chinese-train travellers I know, particularly the BJ-Shanghai route.

3) Especially in the last half of November and December, Beijing airport is subject to significant delays from fog. If you happen to be scheduled for air travel on a day that turns out to be foggy, you could go nowhere fast. The trains will run regardless, so stick with this mode of transport.

AFIK, this bit is not true. Train schedules are quite rigid. Every train is either a BJ train or an SH train and they operate in isolation. Moreover, any train that offers deluxe (at the 5 day mark) is going to haul a deluxe car (with or without pax); the marginal cost of doing so is probably less than $500. I have a friend in the business who keeps me abreast of the way things (are supposed) to work.

Having said that, I still remain an advocate of the faster/nicer trains. Privacy has never been much of a priority for me, though I have fond memories of the one time I did deluxe (between Kuche and Turpan) while my friends sweated it out in the seats... perhaps the best $30 I ever spent!

Btw, the new highspeed track (350km per hour) between Beijing and Shanghai is going forward on schedule. Several friends are involved in the process and it seems to be running well.