And, you have single-handedly explained why there is such a market for fakes...

As for revenue going through the roof, I'm sure the labels have done far more market research than you or I in our armchairs.

Yin Xintian, the director of the State Intellectual Property Office

"One problem is that the price of copyrighted products is far higher than pirated goods."

"If they lowered the price of copyrighted goods, the profits and incentive to counterfeiters would also be reduced."


Those Fuwa dolls they sell at Beijing Friendship store don't seem to be discounted.

Riiiiggghhhhtttt.......

So you think a Patek is only worth $30....

First Q I ask someone, whose comment is "If i had the money, I'd never buy that...", is "So what DID you buy?"

9 times out of 10 is a sheepish answer of: "It's not worth near that much, Much better uses for money, etc, etc." This is applicable to watches, clothes, investments, cars, whatever.

All the while, they probably have a fake Rolex on their wrist passing it off as real to others. :td:



I've got no problem with people truly thinking something isn't worth its weight in gold, but when they are wannabes, it's a classic case of self-denial (and probably over-extended credit ;) ).

You are correct, I bought several knock-off watches for $25-50 each, fake Breguet, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron Constantin, and Patek Phillipe watches, rather than the real ones.

I also donated over $50K to charities in the past year. I certainly could have bought a couple of GENUINE $15-20K watches instead, and shorted the charities by $30-35K. I realize that YOU personally would have done this, Braindrain, and felt quite justified in doing so. But I feel that my own decisions in this regard were more appropriate. As I said, I am more than happy to stack up my own decisions in this regard with anyone else's.

And since you asked, I also DID buy a nice sports car, over $40K in personal vacation travel and over $10K in camera gear in the past year - and probably around $15K in fine wines (I'm partial to top tier Burgundies).

I never said that a Patek Phillipe was only worth $30. What I actually said was that for the specific functions of telling time and impressing brand snobs, A good fake $30 watch could do it as well or better. A genuine Patek Phillipe has other attributes too - as Jewelry, for example. I simply don't particularly value them - and I don't care for wearing Jewelry.

Since you've also speculated as to my finances, you'll also be pleased to know that, other than a mortgage, which I could pay off tomorrow if I so desired, and wasn't also benefitting from the tax break on the interest, I don't hold any debt whatsoever, and my discretionary spending budget is more than sufficient to buy as many GENUINE Pateks and Jaegers and Vacherons as I own fakes of. I simply have no need for the genuine articles. The fact is, I worked damn hard for my wealth, and I recognize the difference between spending it to be conspicuous, and spending it on things that I derive value from. And frankly, it gives me far more pleasure to find a good $30 knock-off watch, and fool snobs like Braindrain with it, than wearing a genuine $15K watch does - and I've done both.

Explain that to my friend who bought an AP Royal Oak Jumbo from a brick and mortar store in ZURICH and later found out it was fake. It had even been verified by the store after they took it apart. The only way he found it was fake was when he sent it to AP for repair. They could only tell because there are multiple coded part numbers in the mechanisms and they didnt match their database.

Whenever possible I really do buy the real thing. For example, I've been told that my watch is related to the Rolex family of fine watches; my particular model is the Timex. It tells time both digitally and analogly and if I push the right button it can tell me which direction I'm pointed in. (But first I have to hold the button while the display reads 'CALIB' and turn in two complete circles in thirty seconds.) And it lights up in the dark, if I punch the right button.

Easy. A less than reputable brick and mortar store decided to swap out the ebauche/calibre from a non-functioning watch or empty case with another one (possibly stolen?).

Q1: Did AP respond by saying the calibre/escapement/whatever was fake/stolen or that it just didn't match? If they returned the watch, I suspect it just didn't match.

Q2: Was this an AD or grey market? If former, then I suspect your friend has recourse.

To me, there is a difference between being ripped off (unsuspecting) and mens rea.

Nothing wrong with Timex. ^

It was in Zurich. I doubt they do gray market there. It was used. AP said it was fake. He got the watch he traded in and his money back. Apparently the store was conned by the person they bought it from. But the point is a jeweler who took it apart to check it couldnt tell it was fake. My friend, who had traded in another Royal Oak for this one couldnt tell it was fake. Apparently even the AP people couldnt until they checked the numbers. Some of the fakes out there are virtually indistinguishable from real items.

But watches are an extreme example really. Watches really are very high end manufactured products. Close are an entirely different matter. Most of the luxury designers actually make their products in China. I think the only exceptions are Hermes and Gucci. Most of the other brands are made in China, whether real or fake. And while some fakes are clearly laughable (there are some really goofy ways to make a Vuitton logo for instance), some are very, very good.

Ahhh... clothes. You're right, to an extent.

Many labels have different "tiers", well, the ones I buy anyways. The lower tier is usually made in China. The top tiers are always made in Italy.

Imagine my surprise when I saw, for my first time, a cK sweater that was made in Italy. :eek:

If you look at the styles, the ones that are being copied are always the lower tiers. Why? They usually have the label's name plastered all over it.

The clothes that cost a fortune always looks like they didn't. ;)

PS: Glad to hear your friend was able to get recourse.

I generally disgree with this. I can often spot the most expensive clothes from a mile away. And certainly from close. I think some of the Italian and other European designers make everything in China.

You're right there. (Highlighting mine.)

No doubt, I'm sure that it hurts you when you get called out for being a chickensh..t who lacks the courage to stand behind your own posts.

In one of the many mainstream press books I read about China last year, there was a chapter about a town in Italy near the Swiss border that has been a hub in the Italian garment industry for centuries (sorry, I can't recall the name of the the book or the town,... perhaps somebody else who read it can chime in).

Anyway, the gist of the chapter is that the vast majority of the factories in that town are actually owned and staffed by Chinese (predominantly from Wenzhou). Moreover, in many cases, the supplies that show up in Italy are all but finished, save a few minor details (like buttons and what not).

Would anyone care to guess what country these semi-finished products come from?

I think I read the same article. Unfortunately, the only way to guarantee quality these days is to order a bespoke suit. Problem is, HK also has a lot of good tailors. ;)

BTW, hope you're enjoying the entertainment. :p