moondog

If you want or require > 60 days/entry, shorter term visas are easier to fetch.

Hoyaheel

Because I have multiple trips and am going for meetings, not tourism. I followed the rules.

moondog

I'm very sorry to hear about your crappy visa.

Your post is arguably the most valuable to date in this entire thread because of the unfortunate outcome, especially since DC (the most lenient PRC consulate in the US), issued your visa.

More details wrt your specific case would be greatly appreciated. BUT, you shouldn't reveal too many details in this public forum.

Following are general questions that could help us crack your case:

1. What type of institution invited you?
2. Did the invitation letter clearly state your needs, and the purpose of your trips?
3. Was the invitation letter professional (e.g. letterhead with contact info and chop)?
-I would like to evaluate the letter, and I will pm you about this
4. Did you adequately convey your objective to the visa agency prior to sending off your materials?

889

This issue has been there from the start. The problem is that academic conferences as well as educational and cultural exchanges fall under the (new) F visa, and F visas aren't in the ten-year visa program.

http://www.mychinavisa.com/china-visa-faq/

Hoyaheel

1, 2, 3. A University invited me, using an invitation letter with some language I requested based on advice here, and it was on letterhead with the stamp. Letter mentioned my ongoing work with the team and need to visit in the future, but only the 2 specific meetings currently on the schedule were spelled out with dates.

4. No, I didn't. When it came back, he said I should have .... My colleague is attending the December meetings with me so I'll talk with him before submitting her application to see if there is anything we can do to improve her odds. I was cocky - I had already received 3 1yr multiple entry visas since 2011 and several colleagues have received the 10yr visa but none in the past 6 months....

The visa agency said he was sending my visa to San Francisco because it is more lenient than DC re: academics, so my visa came from SF, not DC.

I received an M visa. I am attending meetings with research collaborators on a project (funded by the British government), not an academic conference or educational exchange.

moondog

As I noted via email to you, I am planning on refreshing my stock invitation letter during the course of the next 2 weeks in support of my visa application, and will forward it to you when complete.

sidne

I work at a university. The visa expediter we use told our business office in no uncertain terms that if "education" or "academics" appeared anywhere in the visa application including invitation letter, that we would not be eligible for tourist visas and could not get 10 year visas. (This would be the Chicago consulate.)

The airline ticket and hotel reservation method has worked for 10 year tourist visas since then. But no one has been working regularly with Chinese colleagues. Visits have included meetings at universities, though.

Hoyaheel

I just got the hotel information for our December meetings in Beijing so I'll call our visa service tomorrow to see what the advice is to try to get a "better" visa for my colleague than I got. Not sure I'll be able to get a new invitation letter from our colleagues, though, which could be the big thing....

Looked back at my invitation letter and it doesn't actually use words like academic or education - because I do health research, so it talks about attending meetings with colleagues on the project and its title. But of course the invitation comes from a University and my employer is a university, and that might be all it takes....(all this to say that of course this sort of invitation letter precludes a tourism visa...)

JPDM

You could do what you are doing on a tourist visa.

NYCRachel

Was looking at the Yelp for the NYC consulate. A woman mentioned that she was turned away since she worked for a TV network. They turned her away and said she needed a letter from her employer that she was traveling to China for tourism. Anyone heard of this nonsense before? I also work in television, so don't want any surprises.

moondog

Do you have any other job that you could possibly list on the application (or perhaps you are an investor on the side; Chinese love investors)? Journalists are even more heavily scrutinized than academics.

jiejie

The Chinese don't think it's nonsense, and anybody who remotely is connected to any sort of media (especially broadcast media) is going to have their application scrutinized heavily. When you deal with Chinese officialdom, you have to know when to give the truthful answer and when to give the "right" answer--these are not always the same thing. Don't put the Chinese officer in a position where they have to say "No" in order to protect their jobs/standing. Options for you, assuming you are applying for a tourist visa:
1) Put down you are a "housewife" (if you are married) and no employer. If your employer is very well known like NBC or CNN, you probably will be kicked back if you list them.
2) Put down your non-controversial function like "accountant" or "secretary" or "research assistant." I'd majorly fudge the answer if you are an on-screen presence, producer, or camera/sound operator. This course of action would work if your employer is not well-known....though if it's a New York employer and you are applying at the New York Consulate, your margin of safety due to their staff's potential ignorance is considerably lower. Sometimes altering the name of a not-too-well-known company slightly to take out words like "television" or "media" can work.

I'm sure others reading this will not like the proposal of subterfuge. I cannot tell you what to do, but dealing with Chinese officialdom IS playing a game, like it or not. And for those who have trouble lying to the Chinese when it suits you, I assure you that the Chinese have no trouble lying to you when it suits them. That is the harsh reality.

TheChallenge

Just wanted to share my recent experience applying in Hong Kong as a US Citizen.

Applied in HKG while in the city on a tourist visa. Zero issues at the consulate with applying while in the city. You are required to bring the tiny slip of paper they print out at HKG immigration stating length of allowed visit though, they will take it and staple it to your passport. Walked straight in on both dropping off the application and pickup, no queue outside. Had a 30 min wait while dropping off, but the actual handing over of the documents took less than a five min conversation. No airfare reservation was provided, or hotel reservation. Just company invitation and copy of business license.

On the odd aspect, I applied for only a one year, multi entry "M" visa since this was my first Mainland China visa. Ended up receiving an unsolicited ten year, multi entry, "M" visa. I'm fairly certain it is due to having my invitation letter stating I'm looking to evaluate a potential business partnership and potential financial investment within China.

jiejie

I think there are only three general options for these situations:
1) You use the invitation letter from a university or academic organization, apply for an F or M visa, and expect a lesser quality visa such as a double-entry like the one @Hoyaheel got above. While there are 1-year multiple entry F's, for whatever reason, seems like Consulates in the USA are clamping down on issuing them. For academic-sponsored events that are more business oriented, seems like they are giving M commercial visas but with poorer terms than normal M visas.
2) Apply for a regular tourist L visa using the hotel and plane ticket method (or a friend or family member in China who can provide a private invitation letter). Do not use the invitation letter from the univ/academic org. You would have to be able to rationalize use of a tourist visa for non-tourist activities, but unless you are prominent or a featured speaker or something, probably nobody would ever know or ask.
3) Apply for a regular business M visa using a different invitation letter from a commercial enterprise in China. If lucky, perhaps can find a sponsor connected to one's planned activities that is not an academic. This visa is much less of a stretch on which to do meetings and other academic-related activities, since most everything academic could theoretically have some business-related application.

If one's own employer is an academic institution, then that presents a separate and parallel problem for getting a long-term M visa, unless one can use "investor" or similar idea floated by @moondog for one's occupation. However, getting a tourist visa shouldn't be an issue and I know of academic employees who are getting 10 year tourist visas without issue, as long as the visa application was geared to that purpose.

Hoyaheel

This is my problem - I don't see a way to rationalize several visits over a couple year period as simple tourism. I understand this is a "game" - but that isn't one I'm comfortable playing. For whatever reason - I'm comfortable doing tourism on a business visa but not the inverse.