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Tipping "The Times The Are A-Changin"

Tipping "The Times The Are A-Changin"

Old Sep 8, 06, 12:24 am
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Tipping "The Times The Are A-Changin"

Don't want to beat a dead horse on this forum about tipping in China but found this recent article interesting.

"There was a time not all that long ago when tips were taboo in our fair city
(Shanghai)". Yet over the past year or so, weve detected a distinct change in the way tips are perceived. Perhaps its the recent influx of foreign waiters, or a more general awareness of bar and restaurant culture elsewhere in the world.
restaurants and bars are encouraging their customers to tip

from an American in Shanghai: Dan Washburn www.shanghaidiaries.com

I have asked Chinese about tipping and they have said its a western concept
that is slowly being adopted.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 1:04 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
[I]Don't want to beat a dead horse on this forum
Then don't.

Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
restaurants and bars are encouraging their customers to tip
Well what an astounding piece of news! Of course they are, and they have been for some time, since there are some foreigners around Shanghai gullible enough to help relieve them of the need to pay their staff. This doesn't mean that it is right for them to do so, or right for you to pay up. And the fact that a few bar operators are trying to con some foreigners in Shanghai doesn't tell you anything about the overwhelming majority of China where nothing of the kind is happening and to which Shanghai is largely irrelevant, nor that the "times are a-changin'" anywhere except in the heads of a few restaurateurs and a few foreigners daft enough to believe them, and make the prophesy self-fulfilling.

Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Perhaps its the recent influx of foreign waiters, or a more general awareness of bar and restaurant culture elsewhere in the world.
This old canard again. The 'world' is rather bigger then just the U.S. And in much of it, including highly developed and sophisticated parts of it, there is no tipping in bars or restaurants, as in China. In other parts there is tipping for only some of it in certain circumstances at a variety of rates. The polite thing to do is to behave according to local norms by not tipping, and not to force your own standards on the places you visit. The sensible thing to do not to let yourself be cheated just because you're an outsider. The utterly ridiculous thing is to do everything you possibly can to cheat yourself and encourage others to be cheated, too.

What on earth is the point of supporting this con? If you pay the stupid foreigner tax as it is so often called then you're stupid and foreign.

We know from previous posts that you've been stupid enough to tip left, right, and centre. That's your problem. For heaven's sake just give it a rest.

Peter N-H

Last edited by Peter N-H; Sep 8, 06 at 2:47 am Reason: Some problem with italics
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Old Sep 8, 06, 1:31 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
I have asked Chinese about tipping and they have said its a western concept
that is slowly being adopted.
American , not western. How surprising this might sound for US citizens, US customs aren't necessarily representative neither for the world, nor the western world.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 4:44 am
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Originally Posted by Peter N-H
stupid foreigner tax Peter N-H
Well, here in China, it's true existing a concept "foreigner price" and "richer price" in some persons minds, but not really stupid reference. Why? if anybody knows dealing with business, should understand one would never get lowest price as both sides would try to get profit from the deal. A real smart person should know only if he gives the other side some profit or favor then in return he can get much more important thing than only a little profit from only one deal, plus if the other side thought you are stingy and try to deal in micrograms, you will leave bad impression no good to the other side, later you will not get any good deal or no deal. In social activities, nothing simply right or wrong, but a way how to deal with people and thing and complicated relations. As for tipping, Y10 or Y20 are small amount, if you pay, you would get better service and respect, I think it's worthy, I'd rather pay to buy better service and respect. If smart person thought money is only important otherwise it's stupid to loose Y10 or Y20, that's your way, it's ok. I can imagine, if both persons call for service, the waiters or bellboys would go first to which side, surely will go to one who paid or will pay tips. Sometimes, the person who gives tipping knows he may have other choice, but did it, because he though it's not a big deal and it's a kind of favor to the service person, he would get more useful help in return as he is in a foreign country.

Originally Posted by Peter N-H
you've been stupid enough to tip left, right, and centre. Peter N-H
I wonder why Mr.Peter likes to use stupid to insult other person, is it your nature to insult the others? By this way you can't prove that you are smarter than others, an arrogant person is impossible to be a smart person as he just knows his mind but no perspective of other minds. You should take back above rude words and apologize to anacapamalibu for your rude manner.

I think all FTers should respect others as here is a public forum to help each other, no need to get winner in a discussion. Some persons here really gained respect from many FTers cause they are real helper with good will. They gave the forum a healthy atmosphere to let more persons try to join in as it's helpful. Hope the forum would keep this way and all FTers not to forget to repect the other fellows.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 4:47 am
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Originally Posted by ksu
American , not western. How surprising this might sound for US citizens, US customs aren't necessarily representative neither for the world, nor the western world.
I always wondered what the difference was between a tip and a service charge? I get a 10% service charge in a majority of Europe. I really dont want to start up a whole Americans tip and the rest of the world doesnt thing again because a lot of people really seem to have a chip on their shoulders about how some countries do things differently than other but I honestly always considered a service charge a mandatory tip which is something I see quite a bit in Europe.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 4:49 am
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Originally Posted by ksu
American , not western. How surprising this might sound for US citizens, US customs aren't necessarily representative neither for the world, nor the western world.
American is part of western, as any Chinese has the commonsense.

As tipping is a small issue to discuss, no need to overrespond.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 7:24 am
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Originally Posted by mcgahat
I get a 10% service charge in a majority of Europe...I honestly always considered a service charge a mandatory tip which is something I see quite a bit in Europe.
Agree 100%. Great service or bad service = automatic 10% service charge in Europe.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 10:06 am
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Originally Posted by Peter N-H
We know from previous posts that you've been stupid enough to tip left, right, and centre.
Peter N-H

Well what do you expect...I am American. Whenever I travel to China I always
go in a large group and takes lots of pictures and videos, peer out the windows of the tour busses waiting for the next buffet. Can't read anything but KFC and
KTV. Am loud, fat, poorly dressed and obnoxious.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 10:17 am
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Originally Posted by ksu
American , not western. How surprising this might sound for US citizens, US customs aren't necessarily representative neither for the world, nor the western world.
Gee I wondered why people looked at me funny...maybe I shouldn't wear my " I'm with Stupid" t-shirt.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Am loud, fat, poorly dressed and obnoxious.
You forgot to add "and very big tipper" to the above
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Old Sep 8, 06, 11:55 am
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Originally Posted by Vaze
You forgot to add "and very big tipper" to the above
Them little fellers over thar never gonna call me "Cheap Charlie".
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Old Sep 8, 06, 7:52 pm
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Never understood the fascination with beating a dead horse (sort of a weird idea anyhow). Nonetheless I will join in on this one.

Just back from my first visit to China. Aside from a couple of bellmen at tourist hotels there was clearly no one who even thought about getting tipped, including very upscale massage places in Shanghai and Beijing (one of which I and my companion were a little disconcerted to discover offered more than the usual massage), eating places and bars. Tipped no one and had no problems.

One Chinese guy told me that tipping was a corrupt Western influence on decent Chinese workers.

My input, don't tip in China--or Japan.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 8:12 pm
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Originally Posted by mcgahat
I always wondered what the difference was between a tip and a service charge? I get a 10% service charge in a majority of Europe.
Well, tips (to insure proper service) go directly to the server who served you, thus rewarding them directly for a job well done.

The 10% service charge goes to the owner(s) of the restaurant who use the 10% to defray the cost of paying their wait staff.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 9:59 pm
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Originally Posted by biggestbopper
One Chinese guy told me that tipping was a corrupt Western influence on decent Chinese workers.
It's rediculous to match the "corrupt" with tipping. Tipping is fixed small amount of service charge, maybe 10% or less. What's purpose for tipping? To get better service and extra help. Will the persons who get tips become rich? No. Will the persons who tip loose much money? No. Tip is not a purposed transaction holded at the hand of service people, how would tipping corrupt? Do you think a decent worker should work for free? If the boss has this kind of thought, I'm afraid there will never be even one decent worker to work for him.

In any country, tipping is not a regulated rule in the law. Tipping or not is just a social act, it's a reasonable existence. So here we don't need to discuss if it's right or wrong to tip. For those who don't tip they have their reasons, and for those tip they also have their reasons, when they get better service and some extra help from the small amount tips, it's really worth.

Stop debates to refer any racial or national differences, even it's so bad to do personal attack, give this public forum a free space to come out with individual ideas and experiences.
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Old Sep 8, 06, 10:43 pm
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Well I been to China 12 times.Tomorrow will be my 13 in 26 months.
Cities I been to Shanghai, Suzhou,Hangzhou Beijing & Guilin .
I never tip a waiter/waitress.
My local chinese friends says we do not tip and that what I do.
Almost all hotel restaurants charge a 15% service charge- that enough for me.
If a bell hop takes my suitcase upstair and places correctly, I'll give him 10 rmb
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