Will tipping get a hotel upgrade
 

In the Vegas forum there is discussion of how tipping the front desk is a tried and true method of getting an upgrade.

FMINYC is going to Beijing, what are the chances he can score an upgrade by tipping the check-in agent? How much would be appropriate? Would even trying to be an insult that would haunt him for his 10 days at the hotel?

Thanks in advance.

I would not try it because attempting to pass money could put the check-in person in a tight spot and may get them fired (although, some stupidity on their part would be required as well).

The problem is that service establishments like to consider tips their own so one needs to be very discreet in order to get money to a speicific employee. I know of no discreet ways to accomplish such at a hotel front desk (under the watch of many cameras).

That said, if you tip well, odds are, you will get great service. And, if you want to go the extra mile, treat the manager (or assistant manager) to dinner/drinks. This gesture will pay dividends on subsequent visits.

Let's start by mentioning that there is no tipping in China except within the carefully sealed confined of organised tours where Chinese companies have worked out that gullible foreigners are willing to be massively overcharged in this way, and in some expat ghettos where foreign ignorance has introduced it. But even in the best hotels in China, tipping is anappropriate, and you'll likely find something in the information in your room reminding you all this (at all Shangri-La hotels, to take one example). Bell boys etc., discovered asking for tips are fired.

But this isn't really relevant is it? Because what we're talking about is not tipping, but bribery: corrupting someone with cash to act against the best interests of his or her employer. Could this ever be appropriate?

The odds are if you tip you'll create problems for foreigners (Chinese will never tip) who follow you, and for the hotel itself, whose employees may fail to do their jobs in future as well as they did in the past unless they are bribed--directly in contradiction of the terms under which they are being employed.

This is setting up what some guides in China openly call a 'stupid foreigner tax' (ben laowai fei), creating a situation in which foreigners pay more to get the same service as Chinese.

Especially at better, foreign-run hotels you'll get service near to international standards simply because that's what the staff have been trained for and are being paid to do; and they are keen to keep their jobs (so they can move on to something better as soon as possible, mind you.) In Chinese-run hotels that rarely see foreigners any tip may be greeted with bewilderment. This simply isn't appropriate.

I wonder what the foreign managers would say if they knew people thought they were such simpletons. Or are we only assuming that Chinese managers are so easily corrupted? Regardless of that, at that level they can eat front of house at will anyway, and indeed have entertainment budgets allowing them to have others as guests when appropriate.

And what about the thought that instead of spending money on dinner, and time dining with a stranger for the sole purpose of corrupting him or her, you might simply spend the money on the upgrade?

There's more than enough of all this in China already without foreigners coming along and actively encouraging it. No one endorsing this kind of behaviour has a leg to stand on when cheated by taxi drivers, guides, or 'art students', or taken for large sums at 'tea ceremonies'. It's all the same thing.

Peter N-H

[QUOTE=But even in the best hotels in China, tipping is anappropriate, and you'll likely find something in the information in your room reminding you all this (at all Shangri-La hotels, to take one example). Bell boys etc., discovered asking for tips are fired.
Peter N-H[/QUOTE]

I can't recall ever not tipping the bell boys. I have tried not to and they won't leave the room.

On some occasions I have had locals book the room, check in, and go up to the room. They were not at all familiar with why the bell boy wouldn't leave..so they said they had to give him some money. I don't think they were lying just to get 5 kuai.

Thankfully, not everyplace is like Las Vegas. But sadly that seems to be changing as the "everything has a price" mentality spreads and leads to corruption on both small and large scales. :(

I'm sorry but this is a completely ridiculous statement. Any bell boy behaving like this is just taking advantage of the foreigner--and look! It works! You're deliberately made to feel uncomfortable until you pay the 'stupid foreigner tax'. Just send him away. He won't go? Call reception, and you can be quite sure he won't be in the hotel tomorrow.

In many hundreds of room nights over 20 years in China spread across everything from desert doss-houses to the very best of newly opened foreign-run hotels I've only ever once (at The Prime Hotel in Beijing, seven years ago) even received a hint that a tip would be welcome (by a light clearing of the throat.)

There is no tipping in China except by gullible foreigners. Just send the bell boy away. He has no right or reason to ask for a tip in China, and is simply abusing you because of your visible foreignness, and this attitude is something that shouldn't be encouraged with a tip. If it becomes known to the management of many hotels he'll simply be fired, and quite rightly, too.

Bell boys at good hotels have a working environment vastly more luxurious than the overwhelming majority of other Chinese, and they are already paid much better than they'd be in many vastly more tiring, difficult, strenuous, and dangerous jobs, and working shorter hours. They are expected by hotel managements to do the job they've been paid to do without any further incentive, and if they're unwilling then there's a long line-up of people who would love to take their places. Rather than being exploited by them, save your charity for the truly needy--the visibly maimed, homeless, and mentally ill, who can be found in plentiful numbers on the streets.

And why weren't they familiar? Because there isn't any tipping in China.

This is just pathetic, and someone is being gulled here. Any Chinese reading this is likely to laugh out loud. Most find this gratuitous handing over of free extra money absolutely incomprehensible, and the subject of much laughter at the expense of foreigners.

The question often arises "How much should I tip in China?" and for the best of reasons, namely a desire to conform with local culture: not to tip 10% if the local rate is 20%, not to tip taxi drivers if it's not usually done, and to tip others who might not be tipped at home, if it's the local culture to do so. There's the utterly laudable desire to conform to local customs.

The local custom in China is not to tip. So, out of consideration for that, don't.

But to repeat, the original question was not anyway about tipping, but bribery.

Peter N-H

I think you are categorically incorrect on this comment regarding tipping the bell boy.

I tried to tip the bellman at the J.W. Marriott in BKK (yes, I know BKK is not in China--but there may be a parallel) when I called down for some ice. He looked at me as though I had suggested he say bad words about the Royal Family. Finally took my baht looking very uncomfortable. Next day, one of the managers returned my money and explained that service was included in the pirce I paid for the room.

I'm quite cognizant of the dilemma you to which you have alluded. In fact, the last thing I want is to import the US system of service sector entitlement to China.

At the same time, IMO there is no better way to reward good service than with cash.

As such, my personal philosophy is to refrain from tipping 99% of the time (to the extent that I won't get out of a taxi until the driver parts with that last kuai that appeared on the meter after we stopped). However, on the rare occasion I come across someone who really understands the concept of service, I go out of my way to let them know. The way I see it, exceptional employees won't be waiting tables or driving taxis for long so tipping them is only minimally disruptive.

Of course, the "tip the bellboy," advice that I indirectly proffered above flies in the face of this logic. I won't do it myself, but it should go without saying that throwing money liberabally around a hotel would result in better service for the OP. However, I should add that a more reserved "silver bullet" approach (i.e. focus on the employees that you like) will result in the same.

As Peter N-H quite rightly states, there's no tipping in China other in in situations where foreigners have been stupid enough to introduce it, where is come in the form of stupid foreigner tax.

I've been out to hundreds of dinners here. The process when the bill comes at the end is for a discount to be negotiated rather than for a tip to be added.

Why?

It's the local culture. The Chinese are great traders and love to bargain.

To a restaurant manager the concept that someone might want to pay RMB900 when the bill is RMB820 is simply alien. Same with a shopleeper and a hotelier. So let's not introduce it, eh!

And, as already noted, the OP is not proposing tipping, but bribery and the corruption that's associated with it. :td:

While I can't recall having bellmen in the room waiting for a tip, tips are definitely accepted in China and Thailand as well as almost any other country in Asia. I've stayed at the Grand Hyatts in Beijing, Shanghai, and Bangkok, as well as various Starwood hotels throughout the two countries and never has any recipient of a tip (bellmen, restaurant/bar staff, or maids) ever evinced discomfort at receiving a tip.... that said, it's certainly not necessary in these countries to tip heavily, but I usually give small tips out of courtesy for good service.

The only country in Asia I can think of where tips are not accepted at all is Japan.

Back to the OPs question, however, I would not even consider a tip to the front desk!!

Yes, Yes it was. Sort of. It really was more about local custom, hence the closing statement of not wanting to offend.

In NYC, you are expected to minimally tip the hostess if you want to maintain your place in line for a dinner table. You over tip to get seated faster. That's just how we roll.

Sincerely, thank you for the insight and the prompt response. I really don't want to act inappropriately.

So the argument is that within the special foreigner-dominated interiors of major five-star hotels the staff don't turn away the stupid foreigner tax when it's offered, as indeed has already been observed in other postings.

And this amounts to an argument for giving it?

The answer is to get out into real China (just round the corner from your hotel) where if you offer tips all the time, staff will refuse them all the time and simply be bewildered. Leave your change on the table in a real restaurant and you'll find someone running after you down the street to return it. There is no tipping in China other than that you force upon yourself.

That's because, in China at least, it's not necessary, and indeed not appropriate, to tip at all.

This must be some new meaning of the word courtesy I'm not familiar with, meaning the flouting of local customs and the causing of grief to those who come after you.

So if you happened to meet a Japanese greedy enough to take the tip, that would make Japan another country where money is inappropriately handed out to all and sundry? People who, in the view of all but a handful of their fellow countrymen, wrongly take advantage of foreigners by accepting money they shouldn't, somehow make it right to offer that money?

Why on earth not? The front desk staff are no less (and indeed no more) entitled then any of the others: bellmen yes, restaurant/bar staff yes, and maids yes, but front desk no? The only correct advice here is the no for the front desk.

This tipping conversation comes up in all sorts of forums and it's never very productive. Some people just won't be told, and often someone starts storming Nobody tells me when and where to tip!. Many who've been travelling in China within the world of organised tourism, top-rate hotels, or expat ghettos, and tipping away like mad are very reluctant indeed to accept they've been had. This doesn't alter the fact that the Chinese do not tip, and that when in China, foreigners should do as the Chinese do.

In the end everyone will carry on doing as they please, but most will agree, I think, that the best policy overall is to pay attention to local customs (and not to reinforce the idea that foreigners are clueless and to be taken for a ride whenever possible--which is remarkably often since they show such an eagerness to be taken.) But those who just want to go their own merry way will do so.

The main point of these ripostes is not to try and change the minds of those desperate to tip at every possible opportunity, but to prevent the idea that tips ought to be given from going unquestioned amongst those intending to travel to China, so that they themselves end up gulled.

It cannot be said too often. Tipping is unnecessary and inappropriate in China.

Peter N-H

I believe this to be true. In regards to the tipping of bellboys , I have asked
some local Chinese and also recall what prompted my reply that its customary and expected to tip the bell boy.

Bell boys in general will not solicit to take your bags to your room. They may assist in taking them to the front desk but that's where their complimentary work stops. You have to request them to take bags to your room and this is a service that you must pay for. So paying them is not in fact considered a tip.

So I do consider Peter N-H correct when he says tipping is unnecessary and inappropriate in China. Tipping is probably considered stupid as this money should be used for something worthwhile like a bribe.

Well, I'm sure not going to tip in China when I get to Beijing for the first time in a couple of weeks.

But, I am intrigued by phillipas' suggestion above that I should negotiate the bill down when eating out. Hoiw do I, as a non-Mandarin speaker do this? And what sort of discount should I be trying to get?

Am suposed to pay $75 for a Visa tomorrow at the Counsulate. Can I offer $37.50 and pay $50? @:-) :)