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Any Suggestions As to How to get together with relatives in China

Any Suggestions As to How to get together with relatives in China

Old Nov 7, 21, 1:49 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by DaileyB View Post
Even more obstacles. Ugh. Working on doing something that would make sure something like 5 or 8 years don't go by until they can visit. I am really pessimistic because the vaccines only seem to be effective for about 6 months. If that is the case, Covid may never go away.
China is, almost completely, Covid free.
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Old Nov 7, 21, 1:52 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
China is, almost completely, Covid free.
Amusingly enough the government probably disagrees with you
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Old Nov 14, 21, 9:22 pm
  #18  
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Moondog: "China is, almost completely, Covid free. "

Almost certainly because of draconian measures that can't be maintained. Covid is like the common cold that easily mutates. We don't really have vaccines against Covid. Just flu type shots that will have to be changed every 6 months or so and won't be effective against all varieties of Covid.

Last edited by DaileyB; Nov 14, 21 at 9:24 pm Reason: context
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Old Nov 14, 21, 11:57 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by DaileyB View Post
Moondog: "China is, almost completely, Covid free. "

Almost certainly because of draconian measures that can't be maintained.
What makes you think they can't be maintained?
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Old Nov 15, 21, 12:11 am
  #20  
 
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Yeah, it's pretty clear that
  • the government is willing to do whatever measures they deem necessary
  • they don't care at all about people outside the country (even if they are citizens)
  • there is good local support for the above
  • the economy hasn't been drastically harmed by the above
At this point the only thing that will change their minds is if there's a mega outbreak on the order of tens of thousands (or more).
Wake me up in 2025
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Old Nov 15, 21, 4:26 am
  #21  
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Thailand is open and accepts both Sinovac and Sinopharm.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 9:09 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Davvidd View Post
Thailand is open and accepts both Sinovac and Sinopharm.
Thailand has been administering Sinopharm and Sinovac to its own residents for the bulk of this year.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 2:59 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
In HK, you can choose your own hotel, and you might be permitted to leave your room. Hotel selection is also possible in Shanghai if you can figure out how to swing VIP service, but I failed at this mission. But, at least I didn't get assigned to a 7 Days Inn. My biggest issue with my hotel was the prison feeling. Examples: 1. deliveries between 8a and noon (Times Grocery doesn't deliver until afternoon; we solved this problem), 2. getting ramen sent to the room required a day in advance booking; 3. trash pickup occurred at 7p sharp, and I leaving it in the hall wasn't an option; 4. the nurses stopped by at 6a every day (not a big deal); 5. no heating (they told me that this will no longer be an issue after Nov 1).
Can you please advise on VIP service access, for Q in Shanghai? Thanks

Last edited by joesk; Nov 15, 21 at 3:06 pm
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Old Nov 15, 21, 7:22 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
What makes you think they can't be maintained?
I just think that the extreme shut downs whenever there is an outbreak are not sustainable. The virus mutates easily and until something approximating herd immunity occurs, these shut downs could continue for 20 or 30 years. In a lot of ways, it is better to have the infections occur develop something like herd immunity and go on. Eventually, the draconian restrictions are going to harm the interactions with foreign countries that are necessary for technological advancement and also the drastic restrictions separate overseas Chinese from their family. If Gudugan is right about these being popular measures, maybe they will last for a real long time. Personally, I think eventually there will be real economic costs, which probably will cause many Chinese to change their risk/benefit analysis for the current policies.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 7:43 pm
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Originally Posted by DaileyB View Post
I just think that the extreme shut downs whenever there is an outbreak are not sustainable. The virus mutates easily and until something approximating herd immunity occurs, these shut downs could continue for 20 or 30 years. In a lot of ways, it is better to have the infections occur develop something like herd immunity and go on. Eventually, the draconian restrictions are going to harm the interactions with foreign countries that are necessary for technological advancement and also the drastic restrictions separate overseas Chinese from their family. If Gudugan is right about these being popular measures, maybe they will last for a real long time. Personally, I think eventually there will be real economic costs, which probably will cause many Chinese to change their risk/benefit analysis for the current policies.
Stop talking like a rational person! /sarcasm
This argument has been there every month since the beginning.

Theres an obvious reason that all of the zero covid countries have given up. (New Zealand is the only non-Chinese one without some sort of quarantine exception and they have already announced plans to open up. But it might take some time.)
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Old Nov 15, 21, 8:00 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by joesk View Post
Can you please advise on VIP service access, for Q in Shanghai? Thanks
I only know a few people who've used these services. All got access via connections of some sort (e.g. their own company HR or government friends). If I had really wanted them myself, I suppose I would have surveyed my contacts and asked a handful of them for insights.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 8:14 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DaileyB View Post
I just think that the extreme shut downs whenever there is an outbreak are not sustainable.
Shutdown is not nearly a strong enough term when it comes to outbreak control in these parts; they actually seal off entire residential compounds so that almost nobody is allowed in or out until the dust settles. Before I went back to the US earlier this year, there was an outbreak near my office on Henan Road (near Westin Shanghai). At a loss for better words, the affected area was converted into a prison for several weeks. While draconian, this brand of containment actually does work, even on a somewhat large scale (e.g. entire cities).

Land borders remain a potential weakness, and there have probably been a number of leakages, but I don't think that droves of people are clamoring to cross the Gobi Desert on foot in order to illegally enter China.

In short, I disagree with your assessment that current practices are not sustainable. In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that they are increasingly sustainable with each passing month because whenever vulnerabilities are revealed, they are addressed and incorporated into subsequent procedures.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 9:18 pm
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If we take the current trajectory and trends to their logical extreme, then China becomes the anti-roach motel - you can leave anytime, but you can't get back in. For me personally, it means when Taiwan and Japan reopen without quarantine requirements, the draw to leave China would become too great.

In economics-speak, exiting (and traveling around the rest of the world) would have no/low transaction costs, whereas entering China would incur great transaction costs. Some people will be willing to bear it, but the net result will be an outward flow.
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Old Nov 15, 21, 11:55 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Shutdown is not nearly a strong enough term when it comes to outbreak control in these parts; they actually seal off entire residential compounds so that almost nobody is allowed in or out until the dust settles. Before I went back to the US earlier this year, there was an outbreak near my office on Henan Road (near Westin Shanghai). At a loss for better words, the affected area was converted into a prison for several weeks. While draconian, this brand of containment actually does work, even on a somewhat large scale (e.g. entire cities).

Land borders remain a potential weakness, and there have probably been a number of leakages, but I don't think that droves of people are clamoring to cross the Gobi Desert on foot in order to illegally enter China.

In short, I disagree with your assessment that current practices are not sustainable. In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that they are increasingly sustainable with each passing month because whenever vulnerabilities are revealed, they are addressed and incorporated into subsequent procedures.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The WSJ, for example, had an article about a woman whose dog was killed by agents disinfecting her residence. Has caused a big stir. Over time there will be more incidents like this. Will see if there is a breaking point. https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-l...on-11636990026
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Old Nov 16, 21, 12:27 am
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Originally Posted by DaileyB View Post
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The WSJ, for example, had an article about a woman whose dog was killed by agents disinfecting her residence. Has caused a big stir. Over time there will be more incidents like this. Will see if there is a breaking point. https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-l...on-11636990026
The people who make these policies dont care at all about someones dog being beaten or people being riled up online. They can put a stop to any big stirs whenever they feel like it. They only care about making sure there is no Covid in their region of responsibility because their boss will punish them if Covid is found. Hence the 28+28 days in Shenyang and the increasing amount of time spent in quarantine for arrivals this year versus last year (despite the vaccine). China isnt gonna change their policy for a few years at least. Meet your relatives somewhere else if possible.
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