DaileyB

I am trying to obtain dual Italian citizenship and the document requirements are quite extensive and strict. I have had no contact with my second Chinese wife since we divorced 5 years ago. She wants nothing to do with me and the feeling is mutual. It appears that the Italian consulate may request a copy (not certified) of my second wife's birth certificate even though she has zero to do with any of my Italian connections and I had no children by her. She was born in Beijing in 1967 and I have a copy of her Chinese passport from the time I was helping her with her green card application.

tauphi

For someone born in the 60's there won't be a birth certificate. What you can get is a notarisation containing the same info as a birth certificate, e.g., name of parents, place of birth, etc. Obviously this won't be easy to obtain without their consent.

DaileyB

I checked around and it turns out that I have her birth certificate as part of her green card application. I think I have avoided a huge hassle.

DaileyB

I am in the process of (hopefully) obtaining Italian dual citizenship through my paternal grandparents. My first Chinese wife died in 2008. The Italian consulate in Detroit wants the birth certificates of all spouses. I asked my wife's relatives to obtain my deceased wife's birth certificate and they said it couldn't be done. They are not super sophisticated and I am hoping that someone here can confirm or deny what they told me. It will make things substantially easier for me if I can get the birth certificate. (One practical element of obtaining the certificate, besides pure consulate pickiness, is that it will make it easier for my two children to obtain Italian dual citizenship)

If someone can suggest how to contact a Chinese lawyer about this, if it is advisable, I would also appreciate that.

Finkface

You asked the same question last year here, albeit a different wife? Are Birth Certificates Public Records in China-- May need Ex-wife's birth certificate

Will ask mods to merge.

DaileyB

Sorry for the double posting. Getting dual citizenship is a huge hassle of nit picky stuff. Among other things have to translate birth certificates from Mandarin to Italian, present to an Italian consulate in China and then present to Italian consulate in US.

DaileyB

Do you have any opinion as to whether the relatives of a deceased person (I am on good terms with my deceased wive's family [or possibly me as widower] would be able to obtain the notarization?

Finkface

You’re right, I have done it. I got Italian citizenship though Mr. Fink after we got married and it was one of the most frustrating things I have ever had to do. And we had been living there so not second generational either. It took so long that some of the document verifications/apostiles expired and I had to redo them, essentially starting over again. Not an easy country to deal with for sure.

garykung

This should be possible. However, it is a matter of how and who.

First - depending on your marriage, you may be the only one qualified for the notarized copy. Second - because these notarized copy is not exactly issued by MPS. So it depends on the local practice.

I would say you will have to be on the ground for this.

DaileyB

Thanks for your response. What is the MPS?

YariGuy

The Ministry of Public Security, or Police or Gong An. In China they are in charge of things like exit / entry and hukou related matters.

In terms of dual citizenship, I'm of a view that being nit-picky is a way of weeding out those who are simply collecting citizenship vs. those who really really want it. One of my relatives tried to get Taiwanese citizenship (he was technically eligible) but the consulate went so far as to nitpick which way a dot was pointed on a character in his name, saying that it was incorrect and therefore not acceptable. It's clear that it was just a different Chinese font, but they just wanted to make life hard and maintain the velvet rope.

tauphi

I have no idea whether a deceased person can obtain a notarial certificate. But if anyone would know it would be the Notary Public office in her city. Just send one of your relatives over there and ask.

tauphi

Deleted: certificate of kinship has the same issue as certificate of birth

garykung

Joke - I am absolutely certain that a deceased person can't obtain a notarial certificate.

My concern is even asked, OP may be the only qualified person to obtain it.

tauphi

Exactly. I think the OP is better off talking to the Italian authorities and see what alternatives are available in lieu of a notarised birth certificate for a deceased person. It might be best if he can reach out to the Italian Consulate/Embassy in China as they may be more amenable to giving alternatives.