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Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Old Jun 6, 20, 8:46 am
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
It's also something for foreign governments to think about when granting student and work visas to Chinese citizens that their government can prevent them from going back.
When India locked down their country they banned their own citizens from returning completely. Thousands of Indian tourists were stranded in Australia and had to apply for expensive visa extensions just to stay legal.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:55 am
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
I would say yes...the entire population of the world. There is not a shadow of a doubt that 99.9% of transmission can be traced to air travel exiting china.
Most of the Australian cases came via the USA.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 9:47 am
  #93  
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Originally Posted by tauphi View Post
Most of the Australian cases came via the USA.
Quite possible. However 100% of US cases can be be traced from the nation source.

The virus became aerosolized and traveled to north america by the pacific jet stream.
Nice try!

Last edited by anacapamalibu; Jun 6, 20 at 9:56 am
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Old Jun 6, 20, 12:20 pm
  #94  
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First of all, it's a myth that all of the Chinese students in the USA are from wealthy families.

Undergrads are paying their own way, but often the extended family is contributing. They're also not all from Shanghai, Beijing, and similarly wealthy cities, although of course they're generally not from poor rural areas or ethnic minorities. Many come from smaller cities and their families are making great sacrifices to send them to the USA, in some cases because they weren't admitted to really good universities in China.

Chinese graduate students are generally fully funded by their USA universities, often in exchange for working as a teaching assistant or research assistant. One could perhaps argue that those who completed their undergraduate degree (and there are many who transfer from universities in China to a USA college or university) abroad (not in mainland China) have a better chance of admission to a USA graduate program.

Originally Posted by kb1992 View Post
They already know. See this CAAC official Weibo (social media) flooded with angry Chinese students and visitors in the US.

https://www.weibo.com/1821797847/J53...d1591383441186



This reward system is absurd beyond comprehension. Let's say last week UA's flight brought 11 positive COVID-19 cases. So China will ban UA flights for next 4 weeks?

This causes all kinds of issues.

(1) Why should the passengers next week be penalized for passengers testing last week?

(2) Can we even trust testing in China? What about false positives?

(3) What if US retaliates by arbitrarily suspending a flight from a Chinese carrier?

It's just a messy nightmare for both airlines and passengers. Whoever in CAAC came up with this idea is an idiot.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/us-s...-carriers.html

US DOT plans to allow 2 Chinese carriers to fly to US (see link above). Since UA and DL fly to China, per 5-1 policy, China can only do 2

According to DOT, seven Chinese carriers (CA/HU/MU/CZ/MF/3U/JD) submitted application for flights.

Sorry, no. You can't do 7 flights because US has only 2.

Let Chinese government taste their own medicine.
Maybe some additional USA airlines should consider expanding their networks to mainland China, for example Southwest, SunCountry, Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier. That's five and IIRC the first four already have a few international routes. This would give us five even if AA isn't interested and UA/DL can't offer additional flights through their regional affiliates. Of course, these five could enter into a wet lease arrangement with DL or UA.......

Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
Better jump on these tickets...only 2 left
Is this coach or business class? Wouldn't a RT be cheaper?

Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
There are 14 day quarantine requirements in effect for all inbound travelers. If the virus escapes from a traveler, it is because their quarantine enforcement sucks. And then they can figure out what to do with the person who carried the virus back, if he or she is still alive and recovers from the illness.
If anything, the mainland China quarantine "program" works too well rather than being insufficiently enforced. Ask some of those who have served their fourteen day "sentence" upon arrival.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 12:54 pm
  #95  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post

Maybe some additional USA airlines should consider expanding their networks to mainland China, for example Southwest, SunCountry, Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier. That's five and IIRC the first four already have a few international routes. This would give us five even if AA isn't interested and UA/DL can't offer additional flights through their regional affiliates. Of course, these five could enter into a wet lease arrangement with DL or UA.......
Consider SouthWest doesn't even operate red eyes, I don't think will be interested in operating to China even on a wet lease arrangement. Southwest, SunCountry and Frontier also don't have business class, can't imagine the amount of work on the backend to support the sale of a new product. Given the limitations of 1 flight per week, we're talking about 8-15 flights in the next few months, not worth it for anyone who has never flew to China before.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 12:57 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
First of all, it's a myth that all of the Chinese students in the USA are from wealthy families.




Is this coach or business class? Wouldn't a RT be cheaper?



.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post
The reason for the Five Ones policy originally was because there were just too many people in quarantine (thousands of people, many hotels). It probably became more manageable later on after they requested "guests" pay for themselves, but it's still a lot of people. The other day I passed by a quarantine hotel and it seemed like a lot of work. Lots of ambulances, people in full gear, food delivery racks, etc. And this is all *outside* the hotel, there's probably more going on inside.
Given the lack of travel right now, I'm not sure that this is such a problem. It would help to keep at least some hotels in business until this virus is eliminated. And while the intent may have been to reduce travel, the implementation was stupid. Instead of one flight per week per airline, it should have been a set number of flights per week for each country. Although, I'd like to see UA and DL spin off 10 subsidiaries so that each of them can have 10 flights and beat the Chinese at their own stupid game.

Originally Posted by kb1992 View Post
Absolutely.

There are rules and bilateral agreement in terms for international air travel. China is doing things unfair to other countries.

When only 2 US carriers fly to China (UA/DL) but 4-7 Chinese carriers fly to US, it is clear China designed 5-1 policy to its own benefits.

I also checked, 6 Chinese carriers fly to South Korea, but only 3 South Korea airlines fly to China. For Japan, it's even worse, 7:3.

It's time for the world of civil aviation to stand up to the bully. I am glad that the Trump Administration is doing everyone a favor. This is the way to counter a rogue government with a track record of unfair trade practices in the past 40 years.
How did CAAC define what an "airline" is? Because there's a simple divide-and-conquer solution here: UA and DL spin off 10 companies each and fly 10 flights each. UA (original) flies one flight, United One flies another, United Two flights another, etc. Sometimes the best way to show someone how absurd they're being is to beat them at their own game.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
If anything, the mainland China quarantine "program" works too well rather than being insufficiently enforced. Ask some of those who have served their fourteen day "sentence" upon arrival.
Well then, they don't have anything to worry about, and that part of the CAAC policy is pointless.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 7:13 pm
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
I would say yes...the entire population of the world. There is not a shadow of a doubt that 99.9% of transmission can be traced to air travel exiting china.
Trying to think of the scientific definition of 'shadow of doubt'.

Rogue figures like this just propagate fake news.

Find accurate proven information rather than a bias personal thought.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 7:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post

Looking at the big picture: the vast majority of the population are not going to benefit from these flights even if they do resume. There are severe travel restrictions in place in both directions (although most traffic will probably flow in one direction only). Given how high the number of cases are in the US, I'm guessing they will be in place for a long time. Thus there's very little value in resuming these flights.
There is a middle ground between the situation now and pre-COVID19 business as usual.

There are foreigners in China, like myself, who need to go, we are essentially trapped in the country. There are Chinese students who are supposed to start university in the fall, and if they can find tickets the cost is several thousand of dollars. There are Chinese abroad who need to get home.

They can increase capacity and put a cap on prices. I donít mind paying more for a plane ticket right now, because only people who absolutely need to travel should travel. If I am asked to pay $2000 for a ticket that normally costs $500-$1000, that seems reasonable. But, a $10,000 economy class ticket? There needs to be price controls.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:02 pm
  #100  
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Originally Posted by EMIC View Post
Trying to think of the scientific definition of 'shadow of doubt'.

Rogue figures like this just propagate fake news.

Find accurate proven information rather than a bias personal thought.
Secrecy builds speculation.

Pressure grows on China for independent investigation into pandemicís origins | Science | AAAS
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...emic-s-origins
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Old Jun 7, 20, 1:11 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
Secrecy builds speculation.

Pressure grows on China for independent investigation into pandemicís origins | Science | AAAS
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...emic-s-origins
So.......same applies to the USA.......and Fort Detrick?
Many press reports on the secrecy of its shutdown.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 4:39 am
  #102  
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Originally Posted by onuhistorian0116 View Post
There is a middle ground between the situation now and pre-COVID19 business as usual.

There are foreigners in China, like myself, who need to go, we are essentially trapped in the country. There are Chinese students who are supposed to start university in the fall, and if they can find tickets the cost is several thousand of dollars. There are Chinese abroad who need to get home.

They can increase capacity and put a cap on prices. I donít mind paying more for a plane ticket right now, because only people who absolutely need to travel should travel. If I am asked to pay $2000 for a ticket that normally costs $500-$1000, that seems reasonable. But, a $10,000 economy class ticket? There needs to be price controls.
I agree completely. We were conditioned for $2k during 2008, and were okay with it. $10k, by contrast, tips the scales.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:25 am
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
Consider SouthWest doesn't even operate red eyes, I don't think will be interested in operating to China even on a wet lease arrangement. Southwest, SunCountry and Frontier also don't have business class, can't imagine the amount of work on the backend to support the sale of a new product. Given the limitations of 1 flight per week, we're talking about 8-15 flights in the next few months, not worth it for anyone who has never flew to China before.
Even with these new flights only Chinese nationals are allowed to fly to China.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:43 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post


Maybe some additional USA airlines should consider expanding their networks to mainland China, for example Southwest, SunCountry, Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier. That's five and IIRC the first four already have a few international routes. This would give us five even if AA isn't interested and UA/DL can't offer additional flights through their regional affiliates. Of course, these five could enter into a wet lease arrangement with DL or UA.......
It would be quite a scene to see B6 WN 737 airplanes landing in shanghai.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 8:58 am
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Originally Posted by kb1992 View Post
It would be quite a scene to see B6 WN 737 airplanes landing in shanghai.
Lower 48-ANC-NRT-PVG? That's quite an annoying route although I could see people doing it to avoid paying $20k. But I doubt Japanese authorities would give them permission.
​​​
Or are we talking about a modified island hopper route, like HNL-MAJ-GUM-PVG?
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