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Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Old Jun 5, 20, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by kb1992 View Post
They already know. See this CAAC official Weibo (social media) flooded with angry Chinese students

(1) Why should the passengers next week be penalized for passengers testing last week?

(2) Can we even trust testing in China? What about false positives?
I'm guessing you aren't Chinese. If you were you'd understand the government doesn't care about Chinese citizens. Since when they did say they cared? Chinese people in China don't expect the government to care for them. And many in China hate the Chinese students overseas anyway, asking why they went overseas, and saying they should have money because they are overseas.

Why are you talking about "penalizing"? So why did the US penalize people coming from China these past few months by barring their entry?

Can we trust China on testing? You might want to listen to Bill Gates talk on how the US testing numbers are bogus, you cannot evaluate them in the same way Asian test numbers are meaningfully. Because they don't mean much, if anything at all.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 2:33 pm
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
Except those airlines would only be carrying Chinese citizens at this time, which means that they don't want their own citizens to be able to go back to their own country? So be it. But just make sure all of the Chinese citizens currently in the US who want to go back to China but can't know where the blame lies for their inability to return.
I'm guessing there's a whole lot more people inside China who do not want those in high risk areas to come back. So those overseas are not going to win this argument. Just ask the people previously trapped in Wuhan. They know where the "blame" is. And so what?
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Old Jun 5, 20, 2:45 pm
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Originally Posted by s0ssos View Post
I'm guessing you aren't Chinese. If you were you'd understand the government doesn't care about Chinese citizens. Since when they did say they cared? Chinese people in China don't expect the government to care for them. And many in China hate the Chinese students overseas anyway, asking why they went overseas, and saying they should have money because they are overseas.

Why are you talking about "penalizing"? So why did the US penalize people coming from China these past few months by barring their entry?

Can we trust China on testing? You might want to listen to Bill Gates talk on how the US testing numbers are bogus, you cannot evaluate them in the same way Asian test numbers are meaningfully. Because they don't mean much, if anything at all.
Vast majority of posters in that particular CAAC weibo are Chinese students and visitors in US. I have read all 6,000 angry posts in that one.

They are so mad that PRC government doesn't care about them. In fact, China is the only major country that creates such draconian 5-1 policy preventing its own citizens returning to home.

OTOH, vast majority of people in China are hostile to Chinese students overseas.

The reward system penalizes passengers next week due to some positive test results on last week's flights. These passengers could be in limbo if CAAC cancels their flights.

The reward system also penalizes UA/DL who have no control over COVID.

US testing is irrelevant. People are suspicious about China's testing accuracy just as they are suspicious about US' testing.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 2:48 pm
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Originally Posted by kb1992 View Post
US testing is irrelevant. People are suspicious about China's testing accuracy just as they are suspicious about US' testing.
Actually that is not true. More people are suspicious about Chinese testing. Most people in the US, for example, aren't suspicious about US testing because they don't know any better.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 3:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post
I'm guessing there's a whole lot more people inside China who do not want those in high risk areas to come back. So those overseas are not going to win this argument. Just ask the people previously trapped in Wuhan. They know where the "blame" is. And so what?
There are 14 day quarantine requirements in effect for all inbound travelers. If the virus escapes from a traveler, it is because their quarantine enforcement sucks. And then they can figure out what to do with the person who carried the virus back, if he or she is still alive and recovers from the illness.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 3:46 pm
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
There are 14 day quarantine requirements in effect for all inbound travelers. If the virus escapes from a traveler, it is because their quarantine enforcement sucks. And then they can figure out what to do with the person who carried the virus back, if he or she is still alive and recovers from the illness.
China has the strictest quarantine requirements.
I guess you have no idea how "viruses" work. There's no such thing as 100% protection.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 4:06 pm
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Originally Posted by s0ssos View Post
China has the strictest quarantine requirements.
I guess you have no idea how "viruses" work. There's no such thing as 100% protection.
Well they already have community spread in China, and there's no way to be 100% sure it's completely eradicated. So long as the risk is much lower than getting it from someone who's walking around as an asymptomatic carrier, AND you have an aggressive testing and contact tracing scheme in place to catch cases and stop transmission chains, it's not the end of the world if one or two cases get through.
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Old Jun 5, 20, 5:08 pm
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Originally Posted by s0ssos View Post
China has the strictest quarantine requirements.
I guess you have no idea how "viruses" work. There's no such thing as 100% protection.
They may have the strictest quarantine but they sure have the worst isolation requirements. What efforts were made to keep the virus isolated to China..NONE.


isolation serves the same purpose as quarantine, itís reserved for those who are already sick. It keeps infected people away from healthy people to prevent the sickness from spreading.

Last edited by anacapamalibu; Jun 5, 20 at 5:16 pm
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Old Jun 5, 20, 6:02 pm
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Originally Posted by s0ssos View Post
I'm guessing you aren't Chinese. If you were you'd understand the government doesn't care about Chinese citizens. Since when they did say they cared? Chinese people in China don't expect the government to care for them.
I think John Locke had something to say about this...

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Old Jun 5, 20, 10:54 pm
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https://www.transportation.gov/sites...202020-6-3.pdf

USDOT amended its Wed 6/03 order on Fri 6/05 to allow 2 weekly Chinese flights to the US.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 12:53 am
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
There are 14 day quarantine requirements in effect for all inbound travelers. If the virus escapes from a traveler, it is because their quarantine enforcement sucks. And then they can figure out what to do with the person who carried the virus back, if he or she is still alive and recovers from the illness.
The reason for the Five Ones policy originally was because there were just too many people in quarantine (thousands of people, many hotels). It probably became more manageable later on after they requested "guests" pay for themselves, but it's still a lot of people. The other day I passed by a quarantine hotel and it seemed like a lot of work. Lots of ambulances, people in full gear, food delivery racks, etc. And this is all *outside* the hotel, there's probably more going on inside. I am not sure if there's enough incentive to build more permanent solutions rather than taking over hotels. And of course, these arrangements are outside the control of the CAAC, so there's probably inter-departmental politics here, where no one wants to take a fall if something bad does happen.

Would anyone be happier if China had just suspended flights altogether and prevented all this mess? That's the other alternative here (which many countries have taken, I should add). It seems that China is trying to do better by finding a middle ground and ended up between a rock and a hard place.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 1:25 am
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post
The reason for the Five Ones policy originally was because there were just too many people in quarantine (thousands of people, many hotels). It probably became more manageable later on after they requested "guests" pay for themselves, but it's still a lot of people. The other day I passed by a quarantine hotel and it seemed like a lot of work. Lots of ambulances, people in full gear, food delivery racks, etc. And this is all *outside* the hotel, there's probably more going on inside. I am not sure if there's enough incentive to build more permanent solutions rather than taking over hotels. And of course, these arrangements are outside the control of the CAAC, so there's probably inter-departmental politics here, where no one wants to take a fall if something bad does happen.

Would anyone be happier if China had just suspended flights altogether and prevented all this mess? That's the other alternative here (which many countries have taken, I should add). It seems that China is trying to do better by finding a middle ground and ended up between a rock and a hard place.
I certainly agree that China did what it needed to do in order to create a bottleneck, but I disagree with its exclusion of foreign carriers from the gravy train.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 4:11 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post

Would anyone be happier if China had just suspended flights altogether and prevented all this mess? (
I would say yes...the entire population of the world. There is not a shadow of a doubt that 99.9% of transmission can be traced to air travel exiting china.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 4:46 am
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Originally Posted by Ricebucket View Post

Would anyone be happier if China had just suspended flights altogether and prevented all this mess?
Absolutely.

There are rules and bilateral agreement in terms for international air travel. China is doing things unfair to other countries.

When only 2 US carriers fly to China (UA/DL) but 4-7 Chinese carriers fly to US, it is clear China designed 5-1 policy to its own benefits.

I also checked, 6 Chinese carriers fly to South Korea, but only 3 South Korea airlines fly to China. For Japan, it's even worse, 7:3.

It's time for the world of civil aviation to stand up to the bully. I am glad that the Trump Administration is doing everyone a favor. This is the way to counter a rogue government with a track record of unfair trade practices in the past 40 years.
MSPeconomist and STS-134 like this.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:43 am
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Originally Posted by onuhistorian0116 View Post
Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, it is a stupid policy because one flight a week to Holland or Korea is quite different than one flight a week to the U.S., Russia, or Canada.
No point in banning only flights from US/Russia/Canada because those passengers would then simply transit through the Netherlands/Korea. If you're going to do a travel ban then you have to ban all countries.
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