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Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Trump administration bans China passenger planes effective June 16

Old Jun 3, 20, 6:01 pm
  #16  
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New U.New U.S. ban on Chinese airlines hurts Chinese students who were already struggling to get homeS. ba

Wn on Chinese airlines hurts Chinese students who were already struggling to get home

Why make people suffer due to over reach on business.

A new Department of Transportation order banning Chinese airlines from flying to and from the U.S. is an added hardship for thousands of Chinese students in the U.S. who were already struggling to get back home due to their own government’s cap on international flights.

The U.S. DOT order, posted Wednesday on a federal website, is scheduled to take effect on June 16. There are more than 400,000 Chinese students at U.S. universities.


According to aviation analytics firm OAG, the number of flights into China dropped from 1,340 in January to 69 in April. Before Wednesday’s announcement, the number of scheduled flights from the U.S. to China for June 2020 was about 79 flights, compared to 1,524 for June 2019.

Given the estimated 410,000 Chinese students in the U.S., according to April figures from China’s Ministry of Education, the lack of commercial airline tickets has created a market that cannot keep up with consumer demand.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/tra...rtain-n1223721


According to aviation analytics firm OAG, the number of flights into China dropped from 1,340 in January to 69 in April. Before Wednesday’s announcement, the number of scheduled flights from the U.S. to China for June 2020 was about 79 flights, compared to 1,524 for June 2019.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 6:58 pm
  #17  
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"Why make people suffer due to over reach on business."

The point isn't to "make people suffer." The point is exactly the opposite: to return competition to those routes and, hopefully, reduce fares. From the NYT:

"The [U.S. Transport] department said it was 'fully prepared' to revisit its order if China allowed U.S. airlines to fly again. 'Our overriding goal is not the perpetuation of this situation, but rather an improved environment wherein the carriers of both parties will be able to exercise fully their bilateral rights,' it said."

Unless Washington presses the issue with a strong retaliatory move like this, China will just stretch out discussions over resumption of U.S. flights for months on end.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 7:09 pm
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
New U.New U.S. ban on Chinese airlines hurts Chinese students who were already struggling to get homeS. ba

Wn on Chinese airlines hurts Chinese students who were already struggling to get home

Why make people suffer due to over reach on business.

A new Department of Transportation order banning Chinese airlines from flying to and from the U.S. is an added hardship for thousands of Chinese students in the U.S. who were already struggling to get back home due to their own government’s cap on international flights.

The U.S. DOT order, posted Wednesday on a federal website, is scheduled to take effect on June 16. There are more than 400,000 Chinese students at U.S. universities.


According to aviation analytics firm OAG, the number of flights into China dropped from 1,340 in January to 69 in April. Before Wednesday’s announcement, the number of scheduled flights from the U.S. to China for June 2020 was about 79 flights, compared to 1,524 for June 2019.

Given the estimated 410,000 Chinese students in the U.S., according to April figures from China’s Ministry of Education, the lack of commercial airline tickets has created a market that cannot keep up with consumer demand.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/tra...rtain-n1223721


According to aviation analytics firm OAG, the number of flights into China dropped from 1,340 in January to 69 in April. Before Wednesday’s announcement, the number of scheduled flights from the U.S. to China for June 2020 was about 79 flights, compared to 1,524 for June 2019.
This is entirely the fault of the CAAC and the five ones rule they implemented knowing that it gave their carriers a monopoly. If China cared about their students stuck in the USA they would have opened up flight long ago. The USA is in the right in this instance, they are likely the only country able to stand up to China and hopefully by doing so they’ll change the rules so all airlines can compete on China routes rather than leaving it to the CAAC airlines.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 9:08 pm
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CAAC worked overtime last night to respond.

New policy that just came out says any airline can fly to 1 destination in China, once per week.

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/...-section=world

If they go 3 weeks without a positive case the airline can increase to 2 flights. However if they exceed 5 positive cases they get suspended.

The pressure from the US worked. Who thinks Trump should hold out for more?
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Old Jun 3, 20, 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS View Post
The Chinese policy was ridiculous, arbitrary and unfair to both US airlines and to its own citizens. Trump is the only one crazy enough to stand up to them. Let’s see if it works.
I would think that any US administration going all the way back to Reagan would have done the same thing. Allowing a foreign country's carriers to fly to one's own country while one's own carriers are banned from flying to the same foreign country but want to restart service is just bad optics. Especially so when your own carriers are about to layoff thousands of employees due to a drop in travel demand.

Originally Posted by YariGuy View Post
CAAC worked overtime last night to respond.

New policy that just came out says any airline can fly to 1 destination in China, once per week.

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/...-section=world

If they go 3 weeks without a positive case the airline can increase to 2 flights. However if they exceed 5 positive cases they get suspended.

The pressure from the US worked. Who thinks Trump should hold out for more?
Well the US should reciprocate the COVID-19 rules: test all people arriving into the US, and only allow increases in flights if there are no positive cases in 3 weeks. Suspensions to follow if > 5 people test positive.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 10:28 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by YariGuy View Post
CAAC worked overtime last night to respond.

New policy that just came out says any airline can fly to 1 destination in China, once per week.

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/...-section=world

If they go 3 weeks without a positive case the airline can increase to 2 flights. However if they exceed 5 positive cases they get suspended.

The pressure from the US worked. Who thinks Trump should hold out for more?
China is playing unfair game again.

Seven Chinese carriers can fly to US. That’s 7 weekly flights. Not to mention deceptive “charter flights”.

Only 2-3 US carriers fly to China. For July to October only two airlines DL UA plan to. That’s 2 weekly flights.

I urge DOT to consider this and reject CAAC bogus proposal.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 11:03 pm
  #22  
 
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CAAC proposal allowing foreign carriers fly to China under current '5-1 rule'

Well, CAAC just released updated policy, which allows foreign carriers fly to China under current '5-1 rule' from June 8th, it even comes with a reward system:
- If certain route didn't bring any positive COVID-19 case to China for 3 consecutive weeks (flights), the carrier will be award another weekly flight, 2 weekly max.
- If single flight bring 5~10 COVID-19 cases into China, the certain route will be banned for 1 week.
- If single flight bring more than 10 COVID-19 cases to China, the certain route will be banned for 4 weeks.

I am literally speechless. Do you think US carriers or UA will take this deal? Thoughts?
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Old Jun 3, 20, 11:05 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by YariGuy View Post
CAAC worked overtime last night to respond.

New policy that just came out says any airline can fly to 1 destination in China, once per week.

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/...-section=world

If they go 3 weeks without a positive case the airline can increase to 2 flights. However if they exceed 5 positive cases they get suspended.

The pressure from the US worked. Who thinks Trump should hold out for more?
Of course he should hold out for more! HO being able to fly from Shanghai to Finland once per week is not the same as UA being able to fly from a single airport in the US to a single airport in China once per week.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 11:21 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by gokeeper View Post
Well, CAAC just released updated policy, which allows foreign carriers fly to China under current '5-1 rule' from June 8th, it even comes with a reward system:
- If certain route didn't bring any positive COVID-19 case to China for 3 consecutive weeks (flights), the carrier will be award another weekly flight, 2 weekly max.
- If single flight bring 5~10 COVID-19 cases into China, the certain route will be banned for 1 week.
- If single flight bring more than 10 COVID-19 cases to China, the certain route will be banned for 4 weeks.

I am literally speechless. Do you think US carriers or UA will take this deal? Thoughts?
This is absurd, arbitrary and unreasonable.

Besides China has 7 carriers vs 2 for US (DL/UA). So it’s 7:2, not to mention charter flights by China.

I urge DOT to reject Chinese proposal. Chinese are playing unfair games.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 11:39 pm
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totally agree.

all UA will transport is chinese citizens wanting to go home. they have a god-given right to go home. why is UA at fault if chinese citizens returning to china later develop virus? how does UA even control for that? test before boarding? temperature check? passenger promising a $XXX fine to UA if he/she later tests positive in China and UA is punished? HOw does UA know the pax didn't get the virus in China later in quarantine?


beside, who is to determine someone is COVID-positive? who does testing? what tests (chinese made tests?) do you use? how many times do you test to make sure it is not a false positive? does it count if pax is not exhibiting symptoms? it is a slippery slope. better let DOT deny all traffic until this nonsense goes away.
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Old Jun 3, 20, 11:49 pm
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Of course he should hold out for more! HO being able to fly from Shanghai to Finland once per week is not the same as UA being able to fly from a single airport in the US to a single airport in China once per week.
CAAC's 5-1 policy is also completely out of alignment with the 1980 and 1999 Air Route Authority Agreements between China and the US. Route allocation is based on the same number of routes being given to each country. How the routes are divided up by each country is up to that country. All routes could be flown by one airline or split among many. CAAC arbitrarily changing this to one per airline is not right. China had far more airlines operating flights to the US than the US had to China.
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Last edited by uanj; Jun 4, 20 at 12:58 am
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Old Jun 4, 20, 1:22 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
I would think that any US administration going all the way back to Reagan would have done the same thing. Allowing a foreign country's carriers to fly to one's own country while one's own carriers are banned from flying to the same foreign country but want to restart service is just bad optics. Especially so when your own carriers are about to layoff thousands of employees due to a drop in travel demand.


Well the US should reciprocate the COVID-19 rules: test all people arriving into the US, and only allow increases in flights if there are no positive cases in 3 weeks. Suspensions to follow if > 5 people test positive.
Huh? US doesn't even have a policy for people coming in to the US for basic screening. They just let them right through without doing literally anything.
You mean have a policy on paper, for looks?
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Old Jun 4, 20, 1:42 am
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Originally Posted by uanj View Post
CAAC's 5-1 policy is also completely out of alignment with the 1980 and 1999 Air Route Authority Agreements between China and the US. Route allocation is based on the same number of routes being given to each country. How the routes are divided up by each country is up to that country. All routes could be flown by one airline or split among many. CAAC arbitrarily changing this to one per airline is not right. China had far more airlines operating flights to the US than the US had to China.

The DOT didn’t go far enough.

It should suspend all Chinese carriers flying to US immediately.

Force the Chinese government go back to negotiation table.
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Old Jun 4, 20, 1:54 am
  #29  
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That would have left Americans booked to leave China suddenly stranded. Not a good move. Now at least they have two weeks or more to make alternate arrangements.

Two weeks and flights go Poof! is more than enough pressure on Beijing.
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Old Jun 4, 20, 2:54 am
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USC (Los Angeles) just announced the start of their fall semester to be in person on August 16th.
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