Last edit by: username
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING
The following two links are updated daily:
IATA international transit / arrival policies Coronavirus Outbreak - Update
WHO Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) situation reports
Counters / Meters : Other Discussions on FlyerTalk Pertaining to COVID-19:
General (in this forum)
Location-specific
Airlines
Hotels
Other
Please add other discussions on FlyerTalk pertaining to COVID-19 not already been included in this WikiPost. Thank you.
This thread has become a valuable resource on Corona Virus/COVID-19 in general and no longer just about its impact on China travel. In order for the thread to remain fact-based and useful, posters are reminded to keep it free of speculation, conjecture and fear-mongering. Posts which do not meet these guidelines or which break the FT rules may be edited or deleted. Please observe the following FT rules in particular:
- be respectful and helpful
- stay on topic
- posts must be contributive to the thread
- inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative posts are not allowed
- repetitively posting comments of the same general theme is not permitted
- abusive, hateful, threatening, harassing or otherwise offensive posts will not be tolerated
- do not post comments on moderator decisions
FlyerTalk Senior Moderator Team
- be respectful and helpful
- stay on topic
- posts must be contributive to the thread
- inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative posts are not allowed
- repetitively posting comments of the same general theme is not permitted
- abusive, hateful, threatening, harassing or otherwise offensive posts will not be tolerated
- do not post comments on moderator decisions
FlyerTalk Senior Moderator Team
The following two links are updated daily:
IATA international transit / arrival policies Coronavirus Outbreak - Update
WHO Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) situation reports
Counters / Meters : Other Discussions on FlyerTalk Pertaining to COVID-19:
General (in this forum)
- Corona Virus / COVID-19 : general fact-based reporting [previously in] China forum
- COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
- USA halts entry of visitors who’ve been in UK, Ireland, Schengen countries
Location-specific
Airlines
- coronavirus travel waiver Air Canada | Aeroplan forum
- Coronavirus - Air China offers full refunds Other Asian, Australian, and South Pacific Airlines
- Does AFKL suspend flights to Mainland China? Air France, KLM, and Other Partners | Flying Blue
- NZ Suspends PVG service - till 29 March Air New Zealand | Air Points
- Alaska disappointing handling over an award ticket regarding viral outbreak in china Alaska Airlines | Mileage Plan
- AA China Coronavirus paid & award flights cancellation / change questions American Airlines | AAdvantage
- Coronavirus + NH All Nippon Airways | ANA Mileage Club
- *Coronavirus : BA Suspends all flts to mainland China* +discussion on long haul flts British Airways | Executive Club forum
- Wuhan coronavirus - effect on Cathay Pacific Cathay Pacific | Marco Polo Club
- China Southern travel-waiver corona-virus Other Asian, Australian, and South Pacific Airlines
- DL Coronavirus Waiver // Suspension of China flights due to Corona Virus Delta Air Lines / SkyMiles
- Coronavirus - Emirates Emirates | Skywards
- BR Adjusts Service/Schedule Due to Coronavirus Outbreak Eva Air / Infinity MileageLands
- Finnair China travel waivers?? Finnair | Finnair Plus
- Hainan Airlines (HU) Travel Waiver for 2019-nCoV? Other Asian, Australian, and South Pacific Airlines
- IB halts flights to China due to CoronaVirus [29/01/2020] Iberia Airlines | Iberia Plus
- Wuhan Coronavirus travel waiver / service change Japan Airlines | JAL Mileage Bank
- Coronavirus: LH Group general waiver to rebook flights operated end of April 2020 Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More
- Coronavirus: LH Group suspends flights to Italy [Discussion of Italy waiver] Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More
- Coronavirus Ticket Change Policy? Malaysia Airlines | Enrich
- QANTAS suspends services to China from Feb 9 Qantas | Frequent Flyer
- Ryanair - any options for Italy flights? Ryanair / Other European airlines
- SAS stops all direct flights to mainland China SAS | EuroBonus
- Coronavirus waivers Singapore Airlines | KrisFlyer
- THAI reduces flights to/from Mainland China 08Feb - 28Mar Thai Airways | Royal Orchid Plus
- Turkish Airlines Suspends Service to China until February 09 Turkish Airlines | Miles&Smiles
- UA COVID19: Flight Suspensions; Reduced serviced; Waivers; and No change fee bookings United Airlines | MileagePlus
- Coronavirus Waivers? Virgin Atlantic Airways | Flying Club
Hotels
- Cancellation of Bookings Due to Corona Virus Accor / ALL (Accor Live Limitless)
- Does Hilton wave no refundable bookings? Hilton / Hilton Honors
- CoronaVirus Cancellation - Non Refundable RESULT InterContinental Hotels / IHG Reward Club & Intercontinental Ambassador
- Coronavirus, any impact on your travel plan Marriott / Marriott Bonvoy
Other
- Which longhaul routes to/from China will be cut by end of Q1 2020? TravelBuzz
- Coronavirus epidemic, worries for China/ Global GDP OmniPR forum
- Coronavirus in the US. What would Amtrak do? Amtrak / Guest Rewards
- Your Next Cruise: Are are Having Second Thoughts Due to Fears of Pandemic? Travel&Dining / Cruises
Please add other discussions on FlyerTalk pertaining to COVID-19 not already been included in this WikiPost. Thank you.
Coronavirus / COVID-19 : general fact-based reporting
#91
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
I couldn’t resist. From Daily Mail. : |
Revolting footage shows Chinese woman eating a bat
https://mol.im/a/7920573
Revolting footage shows Chinese woman eating a bat
https://mol.im/a/7920573
That video pretty much explains why 19 million people are in quarantine.
#92
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,605
Most sites (including Scientific American) are reporting that the virus may be linked to snakes. That article seems to suggest that the source is bats but nothing I've seen shows that this was confirmed.
#93
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Scotland
Programs: Star Alliance
Posts: 476
I couldn’t resist. From Daily Mail. : |
Revolting footage shows Chinese woman eating a bat
https://mol.im/a/7920573
Revolting footage shows Chinese woman eating a bat
https://mol.im/a/7920573
It cannot be unseen.
#94
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,605
China + illegal animal markets? You don't say?
I'm amazed the region (including ASEAN) doesn't have more coronaviruses, considering how valuable endangered species/tusks/ingredients for male "virility" can be.
Anyway, the bug has spread to Guangdong, too. HK border closure imminent? I know that mainland numbers to the HKSAR(S) has dropped, but there's still traffic.
I'm amazed the region (including ASEAN) doesn't have more coronaviruses, considering how valuable endangered species/tusks/ingredients for male "virility" can be.
Anyway, the bug has spread to Guangdong, too. HK border closure imminent? I know that mainland numbers to the HKSAR(S) has dropped, but there's still traffic.
https://www.vox.com/2020/1/23/210783...rus-travel-ban
Fortunately, this thing doesn't appear to have the contagiousness of the measles, but the things they're doing inside of Wuhan appear to be unhelpful. My wife reported that they apparently had a large public dinner with tens of thousands of people just 5 or so days ago. I wonder if this quarantine was a sort of knee jerk reaction to what they stupidly did less than a week before: at a time when researchers and medical workers are trying to isolate affected individuals and track down people they had contact with, they created a potential pool of tens of thousands of carriers in a matter of a few hours.
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,573
I read somewhere that Wuhan is a ghost town, which means people are mostly staying home. This may slow down transmission rates a bit and at least buys some time to assess the situation and prep.
#96
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
. My wife reported that they apparently had a large public dinner with tens of thousands of people just 5 or so days ago. I wonder if this quarantine was a sort of knee jerk reaction to what they stupidly did less than a week before: at a time when researchers and medical workers are trying to isolate affected individuals and track down people they had contact with, they created a potential pool of tens of thousands of carriers in a matter of a few hours.
Wanjia Banquet
Îäşş°Ů˛˝Í¤ÍňĽŇŃ翪ąř 12600µŔĂŔζľŰŇ»ĚĂ-ÖĐĐÂÍř
#97
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
sounds like superstition drives demand for “exotic” animals to be eaten.
maybe if this was going on in rural villages with limited contact with the outside world. But things like Ebola didn’t originate from some modern metropolis.
#98
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,605
Apparently its an annual "potluck" dinner for 40,000 families sharing over 12000 home made dishes.
Wanjia Banquet
Îäşş°Ů˛˝Í¤ÍňĽŇŃ翪ąř 12600µŔĂŔζľŰŇ»ĚĂ-ÖĐĐÂÍř
Wanjia Banquet
Îäşş°Ů˛˝Í¤ÍňĽŇŃ翪ąř 12600µŔĂŔζľŰŇ»ĚĂ-ÖĐĐÂÍř
And regardless of tradition, what they've done is basically the equivalent of having a bonfire and fireworks party after the National Weather Service has issued an extreme red flag warning.
#99
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,090
Perhaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen any discussion of just how long the Wuhan quarantine will last. Offhand, it looks like an issue not of days but of weeks, which is an extraordinary amount of time to block off a major city.
#100
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
Looks like there was plenty of time to cancel or reschedule the banquet.
Timeline
31 December 2019
The World Health Organization (WHO) is alerted by the Chinese authorities of a string of pneumonia-like cases in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people.Patients are quarantined and work begins on identifying the origin of the pneumonia.
1 January 2020
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies a seafood market suspected to be at the centre of the outbreak and it is closed down.What is coronavirus and how worried should we be?
Read more
9 January
The WHO says the outbreak in Wuhan was caused by a previously unknown type of coronavirus, a broad family ranging from the common cold to more serious illnesses like severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars).11 January
The Chinese health authorities report the first fatality as a 61-year-old man dies from pneumonia in Wuhan. They revise downwards the number of sick people to 41.13 January
The virus spreads beyond China’s borders for the first time with a case emerging in Thailand, according to the WHO. The victim is a Chinese woman diagnosed with mild pneumonia who was returning from a trip to Wuhan.15 January
China’s health commission says it cannot confirm human-to-human transmission of the virus but the possibility “cannot be excluded”. The next day a first case of the virus is confirmed in Japan in someone who had stayed in Wuhan in early January.17 January
A second person, a 69-year-old man, dies in Wuhan, according to authorities. The same day, the CDC announces that it will begin screening passengers arriving from Wuhan at three airports: San Francisco, New York’s JFK and Los Angeles.18 January Wuhan Banquet
#101
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TPE, SF, DC
Programs: UA Lifetime GS 4mm
Posts: 890
Wuhan quarantine duration & peak
I heard initial reports of Wuhan quarantine for 28 days to reduce further widespread transmission outside Wuhan.
But Wuhan is simply too big and porous (bigger population than LA or NYC) to effectively lockdown despite police-military roadblock checkpoints and public transportation shutdowns. This does not include all those people who transited or left Wuhan prior to quarantine, to everywhere in China and overseas, with typical incubation period of 8-10 days.
https://udn.com/news/story/120936/4305238
This news story from Taiwan quotes Wuhan doctor stating peak period for Coronavirus cases will happen after lunar new year, but local Wuhan medical personnel prepared to defend against treating cases til May 1 holiday.
But Wuhan is simply too big and porous (bigger population than LA or NYC) to effectively lockdown despite police-military roadblock checkpoints and public transportation shutdowns. This does not include all those people who transited or left Wuhan prior to quarantine, to everywhere in China and overseas, with typical incubation period of 8-10 days.
https://udn.com/news/story/120936/4305238
This news story from Taiwan quotes Wuhan doctor stating peak period for Coronavirus cases will happen after lunar new year, but local Wuhan medical personnel prepared to defend against treating cases til May 1 holiday.
#102
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,605
I have no idea. I've been in China and gone to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tier cities, but I've never personally seen a market like that, so I have no idea how many places like that there are. Even in the 3rd tier cities, there are plenty of supermarkets and that's where my wife's family does their shopping if they need to get food.
They're not even going to be able to keep the place sealed for 3 days at the rate things are going. Involuntary quarantines don't really work especially when people have the ability to communicate with the outside world. What they need to do is send all of the medical professionals and scientists in and make it clear that if anyone gets sick, the best chances of getting treated and surviving are right there in the city, as well as encourage people to take precautions, not gather in large groups, etc, to reduce contact rate. Ask anyone who thinks he/she has symptoms to come in for a checkup too, and monitor all individuals aggressively and prepare to provide medical care unless they are confirmed to not have the virus. Most importantly, the people have to trust what the government is saying and what the doctors are saying. Is that happening? Well, my wife read that some hospitals were refusing to test people for the virus and sending them home without any treatment.
If at any point people feel trapped and they think the treatment options outside are better than on the inside, they're going to leave. They can shut down roads, trains, and airports, but there's almost nothing they can do to prevent people from leaving on foot. If I were in a situation where I felt like my life was being threatened by staying, then I would leave on foot, call a friend or family member who has a car outside the quarantine perimeter, and tell him/her to pick me up and give him/her the coordinates of my location. So what they've done thus far is literally the exact opposite of what you need to do to get an outbreak under control. The US would probably have better luck trying to quarantine Manhattan, and only because it's an island. But if treatment options were better outside of the quarantine zone, there would still be a ton of people sneaking out via the East River and Harlem River, and I'll bet that a few would even make it across the Hudson. The only way to effectively force a quarantine on a city the size of New York or Los Angeles is to make people not want to leave.
If at any point people feel trapped and they think the treatment options outside are better than on the inside, they're going to leave. They can shut down roads, trains, and airports, but there's almost nothing they can do to prevent people from leaving on foot. If I were in a situation where I felt like my life was being threatened by staying, then I would leave on foot, call a friend or family member who has a car outside the quarantine perimeter, and tell him/her to pick me up and give him/her the coordinates of my location. So what they've done thus far is literally the exact opposite of what you need to do to get an outbreak under control. The US would probably have better luck trying to quarantine Manhattan, and only because it's an island. But if treatment options were better outside of the quarantine zone, there would still be a ton of people sneaking out via the East River and Harlem River, and I'll bet that a few would even make it across the Hudson. The only way to effectively force a quarantine on a city the size of New York or Los Angeles is to make people not want to leave.
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,573
Whoever was gonna leave and had the resources to do so, they probably have done it, and some more may do. Many/most people don't have the resources/relatives etc. to leave (and go where?). It is easier to stay where you are, in your home, than leave. Same reason why many stay behind in the US even in major mandatory evacuations for hurricanes.
Some data from US mandatory evacuations zones show that only 35-50% of the affected population complied. Here you have the opposite government demands and resources (lockdown/quarantine), so I would expect that almost all would stay (unless services start to seriously collapse).
Some data from US mandatory evacuations zones show that only 35-50% of the affected population complied. Here you have the opposite government demands and resources (lockdown/quarantine), so I would expect that almost all would stay (unless services start to seriously collapse).
Last edited by nk15; Jan 23, 2020 at 6:44 pm
#104
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
HK news say its bat --> snake --> humans this time (2003 SARS: bat --> civet cat --> humans). I have less gastronomic inhibitions about eating snake soup compared to a civet cat or bamboo rat pot.
#105
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Besides banning them, they have to have a big public information campaign, get these people to drop these superstitions.
Impose fines, even prison sentences.
After SARS and now this, they can't be tolerating this foolishness.
Impose fines, even prison sentences.
After SARS and now this, they can't be tolerating this foolishness.