tauphi

Wire transfers are only possible if the money is in a foreign currency. You cannot wire RMB out. Also physical carrying capacity is limited by the Chinese exit customs. It's not as simple as just declaring it. You have to get a permit beforehand to get physical currency out when you exceed the limit.

Smiley90

Ah, there you go. That's what I was missing. Thanks, that was readily explained. I'm guessing there's no easy way around it, such as simply converting RMB to CAD/USD WITHIN China and then wire-transferring it out?

Bluehen1

That's typically how it's done. When I wired my RMB back to the US, they converted the RMB to USD then wired the USD. My account was set up as dual currency so the conversion took place within the bank when I went to do the transfer. If I remember correctly, you typically put down the amount of foreign currency that you want to transfer and they do the conversion to remove the proper amount of RMB from your account (plus fees).

tauphi

You cannot just convert RMB to a foreign currency legally. Chinese nationals are allowed to convert up to a maximum of USD50,000 per annum. However, this has been tightened up significantly in the last couple of years due to the currency instability so even getting your fair share might not be straightforward. Foreign nationals can only convert USD500 per day without additional documentation.

Smiley90

What if, hypothetically, they paid a consultant with a bank account outside of a china some arbitrary amount of money in RMB for work performed? Is that allowed?

garykung

IIRC, this is what we call "money-laundering".

Smiley90

Purely hypothetically speaking, of course!

moondog

Our accountant would have a cow if we attempted that.

Basically, we need fapiaos for almost all money that comes out of our CNY account. When paying anyone who can't issue fapiaos, we use our HK accounts.

Bluehen1

Since my transfers were salary, I had to have my company create monthly pay statements for me that were chopped so I could get the money out. They basically wanted proof that all taxes had been paid on the money.

moondog

The OP's money is already in USD, and in a personal account.

As such, he has little to worry about.

But, the idea of sending CNY to a foreign contractor shocked me. Maybe it's possible, but plan on getting grilled if you attempt this.

Smiley90

Currently what they're doing is flying to China once a year and come back with the max allowance in CNY in cash (I believe 20'000RMB per person?). It's obviously quite cumbersome. I'm just trying to brainstorm things that might make that easier (without being illegal and could impede their ability to visit China in the future, of course).

uanj

Foreign nationals still have a limit of purchasing 20,000 USD per year, 500 USD in cash per day except a few major airports like Shanghai Pudong where the limit airside is 1000 per day for foreign nationals. This is being tracked much more closely than before. Also, if a foreign national earned RMB in China and there is proof that income tax was paid then there is technically no limit (at least as of last year) but the process depends on the bank.

There was recently a story in the SCMP where a retired People's Bank of China governor was recently turned down when trying to purchase and transfer 20,000 USD overseas. Reason given was he is too old. While that is not an official reason according to SAFE (State Administration for Foreign Exchange) this does show that converting RMB into foreign currency is not as easy as before for anyone.

bocastephen

I would like to know where that liquor store is

My real estate clients from mainland China have pretty much given up on moving any amount over their 50K limit to the USA and our market for real estate investments over here has dried up. I had my HK lawyer come up with a strategy using corporations and stock purchases to move the money out via HK with some light money laundering (ie, quick wash vs heavy soil cycle) but now HK is a full participant in blocking outflows from China into HK accounts without sufficient documentation, everyone figured it's just not worth it anymore.

ricktoronto

How about buying .9999 gold Pandas and carry those in your purse and declare them in the USA despite there being less than complete agreement if bullion coins are cash or not. It would only be 11 or 12 of them.

bocastephen

I think there is potential for major loss on the redemption side - from a Manufactured Spending point of view, I learned you can buy them here in the US using a credit card, and for a moment I had visions of the dollar coin mileage earning days, singing Happy Days Are Here Again, then I figured out there is too much risk of slippage on the cash-out side to pay off the credit card charge and it's probably not worthwhile.