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Permanent residence in china, it is a good business?

Permanent residence in china, it is a good business?

Old Dec 20, 18, 6:24 pm
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Permanent residence in china, it is a good business?

After traveling several times to China, my Chinese girlfriend ask me to get married so i can get the Chinese permanent residence; i think that i will get married with her eventually, but my plans was to get her out of China. In the other hand China is a good place for business now, but not the best place when you appreciate your rights (that is my general thought about China).

I need to ask: what are the rights, benefits and obligations when I get the permanent residency in China??

Thank you for your replies and any related feedback.
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Old Dec 20, 18, 6:36 pm
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Old Dec 20, 18, 6:41 pm
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Anecdotally, I have the sense permanent residence in China is more propaganda than reality. I wouldn't let myself get too excited about the possibility.
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Last edited by 889; Dec 21, 18 at 12:12 pm
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Old Dec 20, 18, 7:08 pm
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Originally Posted by edsh View Post
What is your nationality?
Spanish
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Old Dec 20, 18, 7:09 pm
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Originally Posted by 889 View Post
Anectdotally, I have the sense permanent residence in China is more propaganda than reality. I wouldn't let myself get too excited about the possibility.
Interesting, i also read somewhere that it is more difficult to get that some people think...
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Old Dec 20, 18, 8:44 pm
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Originally Posted by cats_lover View Post
Interesting, i also read somewhere that it is more difficult to get that some people think...
Yes, green cards are quite hard to get; I helped a colleague's wife (high level executive at F500 company) get one two years ago, and that process was unbelievably painful (e.g. many visits to the US State Department and PRC consulate in DC to authenticate documents). The state department guy actually warned be that I'd probably be seeing him a lot.

My RP was also a pretty big hassle, and an expensive (e.g. close to $2000 because I used agents in DC and Shanghai) endeavor, but I'm glad I have it because I no longer need to think about days/stay, and eChannel is simply great.

I started a thread here about RPs early this year because I was interested in A work permits:

China Work Permits: Are You an A, B, or C Tier Talent? - China Briefing News

My score actually makes the threshold, but my agent told me that Shanghai has an additional requirement; pay Y10,000/month in taxes, and the RP is good for 3 years (not 5).
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Old Dec 21, 18, 1:53 am
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Leaving aside the rather bizarre reasoning for the thread (to marry or not, for the sake of a piece of paper!), and the political OMNI material, the valid question is what are the rights, benefits and obligations of permanent residency?

A few I know about:

1. Permanent residents are treated as Chinese citizens for taxation purposes: in common with US, but almost no other country, Chinese citizens/ PRs are taxed on world-wide income, i.e. OP's non-China income would become subject to Chinese taxation (double taxation treaties etc notwithstanding).

2. Non-Chinese citizens/ PRs _cannot_ benefit from state retirement benefits: e.g. I pay substantial amounts every month into a retirement plan that I can not draw on, when I retire -- it's basically an interest-free loan to the Chinese government, which will be repaid when/ if I leave the country. My understanding is that PRs _can_ get retirement benefits.

3. There are other niche benefits that are just for Chinese citizens: e.g. in academia, right to purchase highly subsidised housing. PRs can also avail themselves of this benefit (GinFizz: is that correct?).

4. For those on standard residence permits (e.g. myself): once we cease to be economically/ socially useful, our visas are no longer renewed...by definition, PR does not have this rider...this is the main perceived benefit for several of my friends who want to settle in China, and are getting "longer in the tooth".

5. As stated above, getting a PR permit is extremely painful, especially if one has resided in more than one country over one's lifetime...

tb
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Old Dec 21, 18, 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by trueblu View Post
1. Permanent residents are treated as Chinese citizens for taxation purposes: in common with US, but almost no other country, Chinese citizens/ PRs are taxed on world-wide income, i.e. OP's non-China income would become subject to Chinese taxation (double taxation treaties etc notwithstanding).
Most countries tax their residents on worldwide income, regardless of citizenship or permanent residence status.

What the US but almost no other country does, is to tax its citizens even if they live outside the US. I don't think the PRC does that (provided the person doesn't have a place of abode in the PRC)?
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Old Dec 22, 18, 12:52 am
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Originally Posted by :D! View Post
Most countries tax their residents on worldwide income, regardless of citizenship or permanent residence status.

What the US but almost no other country does, is to tax its citizens even if they live outside the US. I don't think the PRC does that (provided the person doesn't have a place of abode in the PRC)?
I didn't state that China/ US tax on worldwide income only when resident in China/ US respectively...they are taxed on worldwide income regardless of residency....

Here's a link.

And as it happens, non-permanent residents in China are only taxed on China-generated income...

tb

Last edited by trueblu; Dec 22, 18 at 1:05 am Reason: added link
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Old Dec 22, 18, 6:46 pm
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Does anyone have an idea of the exact requirements to qualify for China PR (not through marriage)? The online info I can find is all over the place. I'd like to see if it's possible for me to get. Would be at least interesting to try.
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Old Dec 23, 18, 4:27 am
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS View Post
Does anyone have an idea of the exact requirements to qualify for China PR (not through marriage)? The online info I can find is all over the place. I'd like to see if it's possible for me to get. Would be at least interesting to try.
I don't believe there are stated criteria...but having several "high level" awards e.g. Friendship Award, or some form of high-level talent apparently helps. One FTer has recently managed it, and I know another friend who has managed it, although they are both married to PRC citizens. I've been asked to apply for one by my workplace, but the hassle vs benefit ratio hasn't tempted me yet.

tb
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Old Dec 28, 18, 9:41 pm
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Originally Posted by trueblu View Post
I don't believe there are stated criteria...but having several "high level" awards e.g. Friendship Award, or some form of high-level talent apparently helps. One FTer has recently managed it, and I know another friend who has managed it, although they are both married to PRC citizens. I've been asked to apply for one by my workplace, but the hassle vs benefit ratio hasn't tempted me yet.

tb
Or knowing the right "high-level" official. I was married to a Chinese woman when I lived in Nantong, and I stuck with the 1 year Res Permits with work permit though my wife's uncle was more than willing to assist (hassle free) in getting my PR. I knew a few foreigners who were married to Chinese citizens and most just did the 1 year family visa, which I was going to do on my 66th birthday when I could no longer get work permits. Decided to go the other way: retired, moved to Bangkok and got a divorce.
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Old Dec 28, 18, 10:06 pm
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Originally Posted by rbAA View Post
Or knowing the right "high-level" official. I was married to a Chinese woman when I lived in Nantong, and I stuck with the 1 year Res Permits with work permit though my wife's uncle was more than willing to assist (hassle free) in getting my PR. I knew a few foreigners who were married to Chinese citizens and most just did the 1 year family visa, which I was going to do on my 66th birthday when I could no longer get work permits. Decided to go the other way: retired, moved to Bangkok and got a divorce.
My colleague's wife (who I helped with the PR process) is tight with plenty of high-level officials, but I learned the hard way that their 关系 didn't carry over to Washington DC quite so well. One particular snag was that her name changed when she got married (in the US), but she was unable to provide a proof of name change document (because there isn't such a document in their state). So, we ended up getting a letter from the actual (state level) secretary of state explaining this, which needed his their medallion seal, a US department of state authentication, a translation into Chinese by an approved translation agency, and authentication from the Chinese consulate. To further complicate matters, we included her a copy of her original PRC ID along with the name change letter, and the consulate refused to authenticate this because they “don't authenticate Chinese documents".
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Old Jan 1, 19, 4:11 am
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Yes, green cards are quite hard to get; I helped a colleague's wife (high level executive at F500 company) get one two years ago, and that process was unbelievably painful (e.g. many visits to the US State Department and PRC consulate in DC to authenticate documents). The state department guy actually warned be that I'd probably be seeing him a lot.

My RP was also a pretty big hassle, and an expensive (e.g. close to $2000 because I used agents in DC and Shanghai) endeavor, but I'm glad I have it because I no longer need to think about days/stay, and eChannel is simply great.

I started a thread here about RPs early this year because I was interested in A work permits:

My score actually makes the threshold, but my agent told me that Shanghai has an additional requirement; pay Y10,000/month in taxes, and the RP is good for 3 years (not 5).

What you refer to is not the Chinese permanent residence aka "green card".
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Old Jan 1, 19, 4:44 am
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Interesting thread. Perhaps I can help clear up a few misconceptions.


There is a document you can search for in the Chinese State Council Gazette which lists the eligibility requirements for the Chinese "green card". There is an English version and a Chinese version. Unfortunately I am not allowed to link that here. In any event, the basic requirements are pretty clear so one would have a good idea whether they stood a chance or not. For example, one category would the the spouse of a Chinese citizen. It states that you need to be married for at least five years and for the last five years have been resident in China.


Once you decide to apply, you begin the process at your local Public Security Bureau and they will advise you what documentation you need to provide. In the case of someone applying as the spouse of a Chinese citizen, unless you were married outside of China, the documentation you need to provide is pretty easy to obtain. The certification of criminal record can be a pain in the neck, but doable with a bit of effort. The same for your US marriage certificate, if required.


Someone mentioned using relationships or contacts to smooth the application process. This is virtually impossible unless your contacts reach the highest levels of the Chinese government. Permanent residence applications are never approved on the local municipal or even provincial level. The city Public Security Bureau collets your application and performs a rather interesting yet thorough background check. They forward this -- without recommendations of any kind -- to the provincial level who promptly repeats the investigation. They then forward all the documentation to Beijing where it is decided by the Ministry of Public Security. They say the process lasts about six months, but in reality it can last almost a year.


So what are the rights, benefits and obligations? Obligations are few. Basically you need to keep your nose clean, pay your taxes and reside in China at least 3 months per year or 1 year per five. One of the benefits is that you definitely are covered and eligible for the Chinese public retirement / medical plan. Another, and what I consider the most important, is that you are exempt from visas and work permits. You can use the immigration e-channel when entering and departing China. Basically, the law says you have the same rights as Chinese nationals in all areas except for Party membership, government employment and performing military service. It's important to understand that even though you have certain basic rights, you may have to fight for them. The Chinese system and way of thinking is highly ethnocentric.


Taxation. Yes, you are taxed as a Chinese citizen, but not always. I mean, you should be taxed as a Chinese citizen, but local tax bureaus are notoriously stupid. They may insist as taxing you as an expat, which, in many aspects, is more favorable. I'm not worried about US taxation because since Chinese taxation is usually heavier, I end up owing little to nothing to the IRS every year. What you pay to Chinese tax authorities can be written off dollar for dollar from your net US tax liability.
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