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Vancouver -> Taiwan -> China -> Vancouver

Vancouver -> Taiwan -> China -> Vancouver

Old Apr 11, 18, 12:22 am
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Vancouver -> Taiwan -> China -> Vancouver

Hey, I am a Canadian resident going back to Taiwan to visit friends. On the way, looking to travel to Mainland China and back to Vancouver from China. With a Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit, I am able to enter China from Taiwan but what's confusing me is exiting. Since I don't have a Chinese Visa on my Canadian passport, am I allowed to exit China with the Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit even though I'm flying back to Vancouver?
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Old Apr 11, 18, 10:17 am
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Welcome to Flyertak, xRoyalPhantom
I am moving your thread over to the FT China Forum. Please follow there.
Thanks..
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Old Apr 11, 18, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by xRoyalPhantom View Post
Hey, I am a Canadian resident going back to Taiwan to visit friends. On the way, looking to travel to Mainland China and back to Vancouver from China. With a Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit, I am able to enter China from Taiwan but what's confusing me is exiting. Since I don't have a Chinese Visa on my Canadian passport, am I allowed to exit China with the Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit even though I'm flying back to Vancouver?
I did HKG-PVG-NRT, HKG-PVG-SFO, and HKG-PEK//TNA-TPE a few times, entering with my HRP and exiting with my HRP. They did sometimes ask for my travel document to enter another country, and I showed them my US passport. They sometimes took a look inside, but I never had any problem. However:
* HRP is different from a Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit, although being issued for the same purpose. In 1996, Mainland's NPC issued an interpretation allowing Hong Kong and Macau residents of Chinese nationality to have multiple travel documents including passports, but I don't think that ruling includes Taiwan residents.
* I learnt of cases where they confiscated HRPs from HRP holders because they saw a Mainland Chinese stamp on their US passports. So if you have a Chinese Visa, you may in fact risking losing your Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit. Anyway, a Chinese visa is useless as you won't have an entry stamp on your passport,

Can you return to YVR via TPE? That may take care of potential issues.
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Old Apr 14, 18, 10:59 pm
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I'm confused - if you have a Canadian passport, why would you have any type of Taiwan travel permit? Why not either get a China visa for your Canadian passport, or structure the trip as a TWOV with another stop somewhere else - YVR-TPE-China-TYO-YVR? You are traveling as a Canadian citizen, correct?
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Old Apr 14, 18, 11:26 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I'm confused - if you have a Canadian passport, why would you have any type of Taiwan travel permit?
I believe OP has dual citizenships. At least China is considering him a Chinese citizen by granting him his travel permit.

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Why not either get a China visa for your Canadian passport, or structure the trip as a TWOV with another stop somewhere else - YVR-TPE-China-TYO-YVR? You are traveling as a Canadian citizen, correct?
If OP enters in China with a stamp in passport and if found out by Chinese immigration that he has a travel permit, his travel permit will likely be revoked. There are a lot of convenience entering China as a China (Taiwan) national.

Last edited by cxfan1960; Apr 14, 18 at 11:32 pm
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Old Apr 14, 18, 11:43 pm
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Originally Posted by cxfan1960 View Post
I believe OP has dual citizenships. At least China is considering him a Chinese citizen by granting him his travel permit.

If OP enters in China with a stamp in passport and if found out by Chinese immigration that he has a travel permit, his travel permit will likely be revoked. There are a lot of convenience entering China as a China (Taiwan) national.
OK...slowly clearing things up, but some questions remain:

1. The OP is a dual national of Canada/China or Canada/Taiwan?
2. Why not enter/leave China with their Chinese passport and enter/leave Taiwan/Canada with their Canadian passport, so no stamps appear in the China passport, which is where I assume the Taiwan travel permit resides?
3. If the OP is a dual national of Canada/Taiwan, why not get a China visa (or TWOV) arrangement for the Canadian passport and enter/leave Taiwan on the Taiwanese or Canadian passport?

I guess I am not really seeing the benefit of the mainland permit as a convenience since it's actually creating an inconvenience in a dual national situation like this. China should be treating the OP as a Canadian citizen so they have stronger consular protection, and Taiwan can treat the OP as either a Taiwanese or Canadian citizen depending on which passport the OP feels like presenting.
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Old Apr 15, 18, 7:21 am
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1. Depends on who you ask. The OP thinks it's Canada/Taiwan, but China thinks he's just Chinese (Taiwan).
2. Incorrect assumption. He doesn't have a (mainland) Chinese passport, he has a Taiwan Taibaozheng which isn't the same thing. TBZ doesn't reside in a passport, it is a separate item.
3. He could do that, get a Chinese visa in the Canadian passport and travel only on that especially if wanting to travel directly into the mainland from third countries. . But Chinese visas do cost, and getting them if one is ethnic Chinese and from Taiwan, requires extra hassles and documentations that non-ethnic foreigners don't have to deal with.

It is true that traveling on a Taiwan Taibaozheng does not give Consular protections of the Canadian nationality, should something happen while he's in China. However, there can be some advantages to traveling as a Chinese in China, if one doesn't expect to get into a tangle with the law. Which is why some dual Taiwan + other citizenship prefer to travel on the Taibaozheng....but they have to travel to the mainland via Taiwan or HK to prevent revealing that they have another country's passport. And preferably also exiting that way, to avoid potentially awkward questions that could reveal the other passport and get the Chinese credentials revoked/cancelled.

Last edited by jiejie; Apr 15, 18 at 7:32 am
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Old Apr 15, 18, 8:44 am
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Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
It is true that traveling on a Taiwan Taibaozheng does not give Consular protections of the Canadian nationality, should something happen while he's in China. However, there can be some advantages to traveling as a Chinese in China, if one doesn't expect to get into a tangle with the law. Which is why some dual Taiwan + other citizenship prefer to travel on the Taibaozheng....but they have to travel to the mainland via Taiwan or HK to prevent revealing that they have another country's passport. And preferably also exiting that way, to avoid potentially awkward questions that could reveal the other passport and get the Chinese credentials revoked/cancelled.
Some do travel via TPE to prevent revealing they have another country's passport, but OP is planning to fly direct back to YVR. So I don't think that was the reason.
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Old Apr 15, 18, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by cxfan1960 View Post
Some do travel via TPE to prevent revealing they have another country's passport, but OP is planning to fly direct back to YVR. So I don't think that was the reason.
Actually, I got the impression from his post that he is worried about this. As in, he made plans to fly direct back to YVR but is now having second thoughts that this might not be the best plan. Maybe I misunderstood/misread though.
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Old Apr 16, 18, 1:15 pm
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Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
Actually, I got the impression from his post that he is worried about this. As in, he made plans to fly direct back to YVR but is now having second thoughts that this might not be the best plan. Maybe I misunderstood/misread though.
I know I can do that as a HRP holder. I don't know whether a Taiwanese Mainland Travel Permit holder can do that: laws
(Adopted at the 19th Meeting of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress on May 15, 1996)
...
4. Any Chinese national who resides in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and has the right of abode in a foreign country may use the relevant document issued by the foreign government for the purpose of traveling to other countries or regions, but he or she shall not be entitled to the consular protection of the foreign country in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region or in any other part of the People's Republic of China on account of their holding the above-mentioned foreign documents.
There should be a similar one for Macau, but uncertain about Taiwan. I suggest OP return via TPE if not too inconvenient.
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Old Apr 16, 18, 5:31 pm
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(Adopted at the 19th Meeting of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress on May 15, 1996)
...
4. Any Chinese national who resides in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and has the right of abode in a foreign country may use the relevant document issued by the foreign government for the purpose of traveling to other countries or regions, but he or she shall not be entitled to the consular protection of the foreign country in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region or in any other part of the People's Republic of China on account of their holding the above-mentioned foreign documents.
Not to go Omni/PR here, but I thought I understood the Chinese govt's position to be that anyone of Chinese ethnicity, regardless of citizenship, was considered to be a de facto citizen (of sorts) of China - so regardless if one is from China, an independent Taiwan, Singapore, Canada or the USA - and regardless of where they were born - if they are "Chinese", the PRC assumes they are a "Chinese national" - so is the above quote suggesting that anyone who is of Chinese ethnicity, even a person born in Kansas of parents who emigrated from Malaysia, if they enter China on their US passport, they are not entitled to consular protection from the US government?
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Old Apr 16, 18, 7:53 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Not to go Omni/PR here, but I thought I understood the Chinese govt's position to be that anyone of Chinese ethnicity, regardless of citizenship, was considered to be a de facto citizen (of sorts) of China
Chinese ethnicity does not imply Chinese nationality. My kids do not have Chinese nationalities. China does not recognize multiple citizenship for Chinese nationals. People with foreign passports are not considered Chinese citizens (except for Hong Kong and Macau residents). However, many police officers probably are not aware that foreign consulates need to be notified when a foreign citizen is arrested. This is not unique to China.
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Old Apr 16, 18, 10:11 pm
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Originally Posted by cxfan1960 View Post
Chinese ethnicity does not imply Chinese nationality. My kids do not have Chinese nationalities. China does not recognize multiple citizenship for Chinese nationals. People with foreign passports are not considered Chinese citizens (except for Hong Kong and Macau residents). However, many police officers probably are not aware that foreign consulates need to be notified when a foreign citizen is arrested. This is not unique to China.
Thanks for clarifying - I had read somewhere, I guess incorrectly, that China's government insisted that anyone of Chinese ethnicity was a Chinese national, and thus subject to their 'jurisdiction' if they ever set foot inside China.

Anyway, I assume the OP has the direction they need to do this trip in the least painless way possible.
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Old Apr 17, 18, 4:57 am
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Originally Posted by cxfan1960 View Post
Chinese ethnicity does not imply Chinese nationality. My kids do not have Chinese nationalities. China does not recognize multiple citizenship for Chinese nationals. People with foreign passports are not considered Chinese citizens (except for Hong Kong and Macau residents). However, many police officers probably are not aware that foreign consulates need to be notified when a foreign citizen is arrested. This is not unique to China.
Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Thanks for clarifying - I had read somewhere, I guess incorrectly, that China's government insisted that anyone of Chinese ethnicity was a Chinese national, and thus subject to their 'jurisdiction' if they ever set foot inside China.

Anyway, I assume the OP has the direction they need to do this trip in the least painless way possible.
The issue is the place of birth, the law of China and the new law of their place of birth, mainly HK and Macau.

You will not be issued a tourist visa on a Canadian nor American passport if your place of birth is HK and Macau. The only exception is for people born before Chinese sovereignty and has previous entries or tourist visa.

Another cultural specific issue is what the parents did with their children's status before they turn 18; like applying for an HRP on their behalf.

From the facts presented so far by OP, my educated guess is he is Taiwan born Canadian citizen. He is concerned about his travel permit usage as the entry is from TW but the exit is not. Based on the principle of this permit it is for travelling from TW to China and back. This is a much smaller group than HK born foreign nationals so there is a lack of data points and experiences available in the public domain.

xRoyalPhantom:
I would just route my departure to TPE and head back to YVR from there.
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