China Visa - For someone with a record
 

Here is an interesting one, I just found out that one of my employees has an old Larceny Charge, about 18 years old. We are doing a presentation in Beijing in about 7 weeks. Sadly I need him on this as it is his project. I found out about this today when he realized he has to get a visa for entry and they ask if you have been convicted of something etc.

So here is the question, I assume he will not get the visa if he puts it on there, should he lie about it and hope they do not check or other advice?

I hope I posted this in the right place. Any advice appreciated? I assume they do not cross reference applications and such, isn't just for tracking purposes of who enters and exits the country?

Just have him apply for a visa ASAP, by the quickest method possible, putting "no" on the convictions question. He'll almost certainly get a visa, but if not, you'll have time to put someone else on the project.

This would be a very bad idea.

Why is it a very bad idea? Whats the worst that will happen, he says "no" but doesn't get a visa? Especially on an 18-year old charge?

Seriously, from a practical perspective, I think he can check no and the Chinese will never know that had an 18 year old larceny charge. I think we only share that information with Canada. Maybe with England. You know, with our friends.

It's interesting that the guy was honest enough to tell you, rather than just checking no himself. That's actually a good sign. A thief with a conscience.

For ordinary tourist and business visitor visas for US citizens' US passports, Chinese embassies/consulates don't extensively verify the accuracy of the answer to the criminal history question. I would be surprised if a false answer for that field were to be commonly caught when historically it has not been.

But a willfully false answer provided on Chinese immigration forms can have adverse consequences if the person is caught and found to have done just that.

The expected outcome is what it is for the employee.

For the employer, the risks may be different. The employer shouldn't encourage an employee to fill out the form with a willful misrepresentation, as it could come back to bite the employer from two directions: from the PRC and/or from the current employee if things go really wrong or the employee becomes disgruntled.

Oh believe me I am not encouraging any behavior right now for him. I am more curious if he could show up in China with a visa and then be denied entry or worse? I will probably have to get someone else to take over his project, but I also think he is going to fill out the visa with the no answer and take his chances.

On a more personal note, it happened when he was 19, he did not get a lawyer, and made a stupid mistake. Now I am worried he is going to make a worse mistake.

What happens if he answers yes to the criminal history? I assume it will be an outright rejection correct?

If he isn't a high profile person and gets the Chinese visa, the chances of being denied entry or worse are very, very remote even if he answers "no" to the question.

If he answers "yes" to the criminal history question, his chances for a rejection of the visa or a material delay in getting the visa increase tremendously but are far from certain too.

Just tick NO even if he killed JFK, China has no means to obtain that sort of info on western nationals (with no Chinese descent). A friend of mine was in a similar situation and easily got his 10 years visa, already been to China twice without any issues.

If he puts it on there it might save you some money when you can have the return portion of the flight refunded, when he gets incarcerated in China for lying on his Visa application! :eek:

But seriously, I see another problem: you are asking if HE should lie, but what about your culpability (in his and the Chinese Gov. mind)? What if something does go wrong whilst in China? Can he then somehow blame YOU? "He made me lie because I was needed in China for work."

On this note (and it appears to be the case) have you talked to HIM thoroughly about it? It's really ultimately HIS decision, not yours and he needs to be made aware of this.

Are you under the impression that China - or any other country - would jail someone for lying on a tourist/business visa app? That's a very high level of paranoia and unfounded fear.

If he gets a visa, he'll be fine. If he checks "no" on the question on the app, he'll get a visa. This really is a non-issue for the most part.

None issue, I know of more than one who has no problem.

They just want the money...

I apologize, the 1st paragraph of my post was meant facetiously (hence my leading with "but seriously" in second paragraph.)

I only mean to say that there is a POTENTIAL problem here, one that might have a negative outcome for OP. The employee appears to be honest enough to divulge his past indiscretions, which is good.
But it appears (IMO only) the employee is somehow passing the burden and decision on to OP, which is less good.

I may have not explained right, I am not going to advise him on the decision he should make, I am more curious if he does this (and he will have to make this choice on his own), what could happen vs. the likelihood of anything happening.

Form what I am hearing it is probably a non-issue, they just want the application fees.

I think that's really unlikely.

Were you aware of this when he was hired? It's common for job application forms to ask whether one has ever been convicted of a felony. This case is one example where the answer can be relevant to job requirements, even if the employer isn't concerned that the person will commit another crime.

I would state that he was convicted of larceny (also spell it out ie say its 'non violent theft') and attach some sort of paperwork showing the crime was duly processed by the legal system and is history for all practical purposes.

It is history, pretty ancient in fact.

Why bother with a visa at all?

Wouldn't use of a XX-hour TWOV transit along with a return via another country (e.g. Japan, HKG, TPE, etc) provide enough time to do his presentation?

OP, did anyone call the Chinese Consulate with this question? The last time I applied for a visa in Washington I got to overhear several people applying for visas who had police records. I do not know what happened but the receiving consular office both times I heard said that the offense should not be a problem. I did not hear the others but no one left upset.

There are multiple risks here, however small. If the employee's record is discovered it may be very difficult for him to enter China again for a long time. I also hope you have checked with your HR team about the employee's admission to you for your sake.

Perhaps you can't use TWOV if traveling for business.

Source, please.

So, since your original post you stated you just found about this. Does that mean he lied on his employment application? How would your company like it if he was asked and lied in response? Do you even ask that as part of the hiring process?

Now as far as the original concern, have him answer the question and if he is denied the visa, so be it. Send someone in his place.

People say that China has no way of knowing his background, but I would be do sure of that with all the hacking issues we read about in the news.

As much as I suggest not to lie ever when it comes about Visa / Travel issues in general, we're talking about a low-level crime that happened 18 years ago. In most countries, after a certain while a criminal record - depending on the severness - gets wiped. I think it's fair to say that 18 years for a "light" crime is above that wipe period.

Now while he technically might still be not telling the truth, I'd say he can tick that "No" box with good intend. No need to try to be more holy than the pope himself I'd say.

TWOV is for transit, not for business or employment. You would be better off checking no to the criminal history and at least getting the proper visa than being caught in a business conference with no visa in your passport if they were to decide to to passport checks outside the hotel / convention center.

Where did you hear conducting business during transit was not permissible? (This is news to me.)

Either you're very wrong on that or you should inform The General Station of Shanghai Immigration Inspection (GSSII).

"The GSSII and and its affiliated immigration inspection stations are the main authority to implement the 144-hour visa-exemption transit policy" [for Shanghai].

And on the GSSII web site there's their press release mentioning ...
http://sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPag...?lx=40&id=4414

FYI - I wanted to provide an update on this topic for the curious

Employee decided to check "NO" on his VISA application. It came back with no questions asked. He also checked the same on the entry card. It seems they only cared about getting the VISA fee. It was a breeze for him. I did enjoy watching his nervousness as we went up to customs however.

We also traveled to HKG and HND on the way back. He simply filled the entry card with no to "criminal record" questions. No problems on any entry.

They probably realize that US has the highest per capita imprisonment of any country in the world. Most likely, someone who isn't locked up and has a grand or more to spend on a r/t ticket won't cause too much trouble.:D

Thank you for the information. Very helpful!
Did your friend apply for a business visa or tourist Visa?