Certificate of Entitlement
 

Bit of a long shot this, but will give it a go!

Just applied for a visitor visa for my 2 year old daughter to visit the UK for the first time next month. She is a Chinese passport holder and is registered on my wife's family Hukou.

Rather than worrying about the time and expense of applying for a visa every time we want to travel to the UK, I am looking at getting her a Certificate of Entitlement put in her Chinese Passport. Does anyone have experience of doing this?

The actual documentation needed seems pretty minimal but I am bit confused as to where the application should be made. We are staying close to Liverpool (where CoE applications are made) for most of our trip so would like to do it then, however their website states that only people resident in the UK can apply in the UK.


Sooooo, does anyone have experience of applying for a CoE in Beijing (no mention of it on their website). Or is it possible to apply in the UK if someone is there on a visitor visa?

More detailed advice (except about the BJ bit) may be available on the UK forum.

I presume you are a British citizen, not by descent, and hence your daughter is also a British citizen with right of abode? If so, my first question would be: why not just apply for a British passport? It will be easier and cheaper. I know that strictly speaking, Chinese citizens cannot also be citizens of another country, but my understanding is that rule is about citizenship, not holding of a passport. In which case, either you don't mind bending the rules, or (imo) it's equally bending it by asking for a certificate of entitlement in the Chinese passport (which may actually cause more hassle than a separate British passport).

The gov.uk website suggests that applications from overseas should be made online, and clicking the link takes one to the China visa application page, so I presume that you just go through the motions but ask for a CoE. I couldn't verify this since one needs to register to click through. Alternatively, just call or email the British embassy -- they're usually pretty good about this sort of thing.

I wouldn't recommend applying in person route, since the passport needs to stay with them, and in case things get held up, then your daughter can't return to China.

good luck!

tb

As I understand it the problem is not with having two passports (which can be achieved fairly easily), but with using them. It's a kind of "Schroedinger's baby" scenario - a quantum paradox for the modern world if you will. The child has two citizenships - but as soon as an agent (border security) makes an inspection, both waveforms collapse and you are left with a singularity, or more likely a bawling child and a seriously harassed set of parents... Okay, I think I am getting a bit carried away here. Consider the scenarios though:

You try and leave China for a trip to England. At Entry/Exit, if you show the Chinese passport there will be a problem as there is no UK visa. So instead show the UK passport. This is now fine as obviously you don't need a visa for the UK. Except though that passport doesn't have a residence permit or entry stamp in it, so again there is going to be a problem for a different reason. Moreover, you can't just get a visa in the Chinese passport for travel to the UK, as once she has a UK passport the child is considered a UK citizen, and therefore not eligible for a visa... Okay, so get a residence stamp in the UK passport. But you can't do that as the PSB won't issue a residence stamp for a Chinese citizen. Checkmate.

From what I can gather the Certificate of Entitlement is one way around this, at least making the situation workable until the child is 18 (at which point they can legally renounce citizenship in most countries). On the Chinese side I think (and here the details are equally if not more hazy) there is a procedure to apply for a similar document (in exchange possibly for the Chinese passport) from the PSB, which can be used to exit/enter China (once only though - though you can apply repeatedly for this document) in combination with foreign passport. The whole thing though does seem a mess (and as LOUDNOISES notes even the advice on the British Embassy website is to apply for a visa in the of the child having a Chinese passport and doesn't mention the Certificate of Entitlement option).

With regard to the original question, I'm afraid I cannot offer any solid advice based on experience. My reading of the relevant text (from the UK Border Authority "Guide to the right of abode") is that the phrase "immigration stamps showing the passport holder is resident in the UK" just means "in the UK" - as this matches the tick-box on the application form (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...0/form_roa.pdf) where you have to confirm you are in the country in which you are applying from.

You can certainly apply from Beijing using the online application form - and they will charge you an extra 140GBP or so for the privilege. That will mean though that at some point you will have to hand over your daughter's Chinese passport while the application is processed, with all the complications that entails regarding travel. Here you are best contacting the Embassy directly, as this is where you will most likely have to hand in the application.

As you will be in the UK anyway I think my approach would be to call the UK 0845 number (Skype is your friend here) and try and find out (i) can you apply for this for her given that she is in the UK on a visit; (ii) how long it should take, and (iii) how quickly and simply can get her passport back if the process takes too long and you all need to return to China. If you get positive sounding answers to all those questions then try it (in the worst case you will lose your 150GPB fee and you will have to apply again from in China). What you want to avoid of course is being stuck in the situation where where your wife has to return to China (due to visa expiry) while you remain holding the baby, both literally and figuratively...

Thanks for the replies and bravo GinFizz - That is definitely the best explanation of the scenario I have seen in years of trawling the internets researching the issue :D ^

I'm at least lucky I'm not Canadian. Their view on this sort of thing is that a mixed nationality child cannot apply for a Canadian visa because they are eligible to hold a Canadian Passport.

A Canadian friend of mine is expecting later this year and he is in knots about it all. Like me he has plans to be here long term, and realises the moral and logical dilemma of someone being born and raised in a country they consider home, only to find later on they do not have access to subsidised Higher Education, Job restrictions, unable to get Credit Cards and Mortgages etc... and everything else that comes with being a foreigner in China.

"Schroedinger's baby", an absolute classic! :cool:

tb

You can apply for a UK passport if you are not resident but in the UK long enough for the passport to be delivered. I just did it for my daughters and although we left before they turned up they are safely with family.

One caveat is that if this is the first passport (looks like it is for you) then you need to have a certified photo, which might be harder for you to do. I was renewing.

I agree the application fee for overseas residents is excessive.

I have a few friends in the situation described above in #3 and not just kids. The workaround is to not fly from China but from another place such as Singapore or HK.

Im going through the same thing now
 

@LOUDNOISES did you ever sort it out?


Just applied for a Certificate of Entitlement for my 3-year-old son to visit the UK for the first time. He is a Chinese passport holder and is registered on my wife's family Hukou. Does anyone have experience doing this? Will the Chinese allow him to travel freely with COE in his passport?

Upon reading the title, I thought this thread was going to discuss how rich Chinese people behave.

As opposed to how rich people from other places behave? Inappropriate comment as far as I'm concerned.

Relax, have a sense of humor. But if we must argue, yes, it's different from how rich people from other places behave, the prevalence of this behavior is also different.