Mutianyu questions
 

I dont want to append my questions to an existing Mutianyu thread that has a misleading title as well as personal opinions on irrelevant topics, so I start a new thread for some basic questions.

We will arrive PEK at 4:30am !!! on an CA flight from IAH, flying in F class.

Our hotel is Double Tree by Hilton at Guang'anmen Outer St, Xicheng, Beijing
Just west of the West 2nd Ring Road. Hotel is 2 km from the nearest a subway station by the way.

I figure it might be a good idea for us to go from airport directly to Mutianyu?

Alternately, this day trip tour is quite attractive to me, as it will visit both Mutianyu and Ming Tomb, for only 195 RMB pp including the following items:

價格包含項目
酒店接送服務
豪華空調旅遊車
景點門票
優秀導遊
中式午餐
旅行社責任險
購物站1-2個

http://www.tour-beijing.com/big5/bus...great_wall.php

What is the customary tips for the Driver/Guide?

Alternatively, what are your suggestions for Airport - Hotel transportation, other than the obvious (taxi)?

Are you referring to one of these?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...ctions-10.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...u-may-3rd.html

What information in them do you find misleading or personal?

What they don't tell you about this tour is how much time you will waste on shopping stops. Ming Tombs are a waste of time and not close to Mutianyu.
You could go directly from the airport to the Wall if you organize a driver ahead of time. You will need to hang around the airport for an hour or so and have breakfast there for a pick-up at about 6-6h30.

No. I have not read the above thread and will read them for information.

It is this thread that the OP insisted s/he only wanted to take public transportation and there are pages of discussion on the personal opinions on Taxi that I found it irrevalent to the topic and a very much "to each their own type of situation."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...-should-i.html

I do find the title misleading as when I found I thought someone actually was stranded at Muitangyu. Turns out it was the OP's worry about taking taxi for the most part.

Why is Ming Tomb is a waste of time? It is because now not well-maintained and neglected? Or it is the time wasted in transportation because it is not closed to Muitangyu?

I understand the shopping stops part. OTOH, we are not very against such a stop though we never buy anything on such stops after being cheated a few years ago (the shop switched the expensive tea we bought with some very poor quality tea by giving the pre-packaged bags instead of getting the loose leaves from the container which the tasting tea used. - that was the ONLY time we actually bought something - we had been resisting such on the whole tour from Hong Kong, then succumbed on this basic cheat on that.

Since then, no shopping stop would ever get our money. Still could not believe we would fall for such - too trusty based on our upbringings and the culture of the society we live in I guess.)

If we need to hang around airport for so long, we might just well go to our hotel to settle in and then visit Mutiangyu on another day. I know about the 916 Express bus and then change to local transportation method, as well as the much slower direct bus that runs only 2 times going in the morning and then 2 times returning in the afternoon.

If the tour isn't a good idea, then we would go for the 916 route.

1. The Ming Tombs simply aren't very interesting for most people with limited time, and are out of the way... though not horribly so. I think the bottom line is that there are better ways to spend the remaining portion of your Great Wall day.

2. I saw JPDM's suggestion of hanging around the airport until 6a or so before heading up to Mutianyu, and this is certainly NOT how I would play it. Instead, I'd probably grab a taxi from the airport to the Mutianyu area and get breakfast plus maybe a shower there. Going to a hotel in the city first would also be an option. Regarding the 916 bus, were you trying to pull our leg?

I know this forum flavors private driver or taxi for the convenience and comfort.

However we have traveled pretty much all over the world. We use public transportation whenever we could. We actually took a long distance bus from Tallinn to St. Petersburg with all the other Eastern Europeans. That by the way, confused the Russian immigration officers a lot (both at the land crossing and at the SVO when we flew out.) We used buses at St. Petersburg to all the out of town attractions and used metro at both St. Pete and Moscow everyday. Cannot see why we should not use public transport in China when we actually dont have language barrier there. Yeah I know, it could be uncomfortable, it could be time consuming... but, it could also be a way to actually experience how the locals and ordinary visitors go about their ways.

We also have 7 days in Beijing on this trip so we are not like the majority who have limited time and try to squeeze in as much as possible such as visiting the Great Wall during a 20 hours layover. That would not be our way of travel. To be truly honest, I am more curious on the airport to Muitangyu option than actually execute it, all because someone posted such a plan which, makes sense for people have very limited time due to the geographic location of the sight so you save traveling time directly go there from airport. We actually did similar thing in Milan just 2 weeks ago - we took a bus to Lake Maggiore from MXP instead of the train from Milan town on our last day when we moved to Sheraton MXP as our next morning flight to IST departed at 6:45am! (Why can't PEK has airport hotel that is either attached to the terminal or next to the terminal like MXP, CDG and FCO?)

Truth be told, we often "squander" our arrival day and departure day especially we hate flights before 9am and avoid red eyes. But we could afford to do so... However, this time we will arrive sooooo early that is before our normal get up time... that the day is longer than a "full" day in our book!

Last time we had such an early arrival to a destination was like 12 years ago... To AKL to be exact. We went to the hotel, took a nap for 2 hours before we headed out again. On this trip I dont know how it would turn out. CA is not CX, despite flying F, I dont have much confidence we could sleep well. Even with CX we normally only slept a few hours at best. On our flight HKG-SFO in January I basically did not sleep the whole time as all 9 seats on the 747 F were taken, so there were some light and occasional noise thru out the flight. I question whether we have the energy to do the Great Wall on the day of arrival after a 15 hrs flight on CA.

Summer Palace might be a better option for the day of arrival despite it also has a lot of walking but it is all on flat land! Also the amenities in Summer Palace most likely are better than what could be found at Mutianyu. So we might as well save that for another day...

Forgive me for thinking out loud. I am sorting the logistics of this Sept trip and my thoughts are rambling.

I personally will be going with 2kids and I actually booked the group tour with tour-beijing.com to Mutianyu and Ming tombs and personally the shopping does not bother me either and we have plenty of time but I think it is a matter of choice as this was a good price and with 2 kids I just think I will enjoy more this way.

I can understand not wanting to over do things on the fist day, and would probably delay the Great Wall trip myself for this reason if I wasn't pressed for time (which, you don't seem to be). But, I'm surprised that you have fears about sleeping in CA F (I find the seats to be very comfortable, and certainly on par with CX, if not better... subjective, I know). Furthermore, the sun rises VERY early in Beijing (except in the winter, of course), so you don't have to worry about fumbling around in the dark upon arrival.

What amenities did you have in mind for the Summer Palace or Mutianyu? If you're talking about public restrooms or snack bars, there really isn't much of a difference, but Mutianyu has more interesting dining options in the immediate area (this is kind of a moot point because on the way back between the Summer Palace and the city, there are lots of good places to eat). Regarding the Summer Palace being on "flat land", it's a lot less strenuous than the Great Wall, but has many hills and tons of stairs.

Friend had CA F last year and she said not impressed by the hard product and the food was mediocre. Though the FAs were friendly and trying but the language skill made it hard for them to do a good job. I hope we have better luck as even if they dont understand my Mandarin I could at least write.

Plus if CA has any similar issues as CZ... see the F cabin being encroached by both crews and passengers all night long, and smelly toilet...

http://boardingarea.com/onemileatati...les-guangzhou/

That would be an unpleasant long flight.

Sun still rises early in Sept? I think by that time the day time is much shortened.

Summer Palace may have more places one can sit down and take a break as versus on the top of Great Wall.

It's the Great Wall. You go up, walk around..take photos..then leave.
No big deal.


http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amne...rue_lfalse.jpg

http:// http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn....rue_lfalse.jpg

If her benchmark was a hotel room, then I could see why she'd be unimpressed by the seat, but as far as airplane seats go, I haven't encountered a single person that was disappointed in the slightest.

I find the service to be decent and the food to be good enough, but there is much more disagreement on these points.

Rather than use a trip report about a different airline to inform your expectations, why not reference some of the many trip reports on the product in question?

Before 6a for most of the month, and the true equinox doesn't appear to hit until 9/26 this year.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1


It's true that there are no cafes on the wall itself, nor are there many opportunities for shelter from the sun, whereas you can both inside the Summer Palace compound.

Her benchmark unfortunately was SQ F, OZ J and F, TG J and a mixed bag of European airlines Js. (All UA and US partner awards from what I understood so you could know mainly what airlines were involved.)

Also another friend whose family flew CA coach PEK-JFK last year and said it was among the worst airline service they had ever experienced. He said they forgot to serve 2nd meal or snack or whatever even they inquired midflight. Then the FAs rushed to served both a meal and a snack right after each other less than 2 hours before landing. Lucky for the family to save the snacks as their plane was diverted to BOS or PHL, I forgot the details. NO PA Announcement whatsoever. Then they did not deplane for hours.... A very poor experience overall. I suggested it was probably language barrier. He said, No, they simply did not have the concept of Service. It is a cultural thing. Well...

I trust Lucky's trip reports than most others. The kid basically flies every other week it so seems. Enough samples he experienced. Like the other friend said, it is more like a "cultural thing", sadly.

Speaking terms of hard product, SQ Suites are nicer than CA F on the 77W (I say this almost categorically), and OZ F is a toss-up, but the business class comparisons are simply ludicrous, to the extent that you should question the credibility of her opinion. Again, we're talking about the hard product in isolation here.

Yes, CA's service can suck at times, but F is honestly pretty decent (again, read the trip reports), and since your goal is to sleep, you shouldn't require much hand holding as long as the seat is good enough to facilitate this objective.

I will say this again: the report you quoted was about a flight on a DIFFERENT AIRLINE.

Unresponsive service could be one of the many artifacts from their communist past. I would think for international flights, they would train their crew regarding western standards of service, but CA is state owned.

Sometimes that's the way it works; sometimes not:

http://static.euronews.com/images_ne...s-RTR38S2Y.jpg

Yes, unless you are family of a head of state .:D

OZ J seat was fine even the old 747 which we flew LAX-ICN the first week of May. FAs very very attentive. I honestly can say OZ J service is up to CX F standard.

You miss my point on getting a good sleep. If the F cabin can have FAs take turn to sleep in the unoccupied seats, plus passengers can come from other cabins to sleep in empty seats, then the environment is NOT conducive for a good sleep - other than the comfortable bed, one also needs a relatively quiet environment to be able to sleep soundly.

I just hope that CA would be better than CZ which some posts in the Chinese forum claimed the cabin crews all got reprimanded - the purser was demoted and the FAs lost one month's pay. Though I think the unprofessional behaviors have been going on very long before the blogger exposed it, and I feel the cabin crews must have taken in money from those passengers who came to encroach the F cabin. After all, that is very acceptable and expected behaviors in China from the top to the bottom. The crew was just unlucky to have a blogger on board and wrote about it.

The comment below - is very bothersome.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22758838-post27.html

<<A word of caution if you are very sensitive to cigarette smoke. On both my flights the front lav or cockpit was used as a smoking lounge for the crew and I could smell it from my seat.>>

And this

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22778045-post28.html

So now we would be in the SAME hard products - IAH-PEK in CA, BKK-CDG in TG. Interesting but a bit annoying as well.

There are reasons why CA F is constantly available while OZ's much harder to find. People are willing going out of the way to transit at ICN to avoid CA... However CA J is a good one it so seems per the above poster. Though we just flew TK J 5 weeks ago and felt it was just a passable product. Foods were quite good though the service style made the meal service dragging to 2.5 hours long with a full cabin! FAs were extremely busy walking constantly between galley and cabin with both hands full...

The CA F seat on the 77W is FAAAAR more conducive to sleeping than the OZ J seat on the 744.

I have never experienced this in CA-F (e.g. not even for resting pilots). Can you share any reports to the contrary?

Why are you continuing to equivocate CA and CZ? I'll say it a third time; they are not the same airline.

I'll admit that the smoking in the cockpit thing does happen, though not as often as some people like to project, and this certainly isn't unique to CA.

They won't let you starve.

The big one is that, unlike many other airlines, CA is very generous at releasing F award inventory. Do you honestly believe that OZ F sells out with revenue passengers on a regular basis?

CA F is better than CA J.

Well, a Big Mac would kill the hunger as well. 'nuf said.

There is no denying that CA F foods are J quality or even below other airlines J quality. so be it.

Smoking in the cockpit and lava by the crew is bothersome in my book. I dont recall the last time we had a flight smoking happened since the majority of airlines in the world banned smoking in flight. Unfortunately, I guess this is fully tolerable in all Chinese airlines - passengers smoke, cabin crew smoke... regardless the regulations.

I must admit that I often take this approach (especially when flying out of Nanning).

Better than UA F, for sure, and better than most most airlines J, IMO.

I would go so far as to say that 99% of airlines ban smoking in the passenger cabins and lavatories. However, with respect to flight decks, the percentage is considerably lower (though still a majority, of course).

Maybe they should switch to e-cigs.
They essentially invented them.

http://www.canadaecigs.ca/Hon_Lik.jpg