China Eastern long transit, visa doubt
 

Hello,

I am quite confused about the 24h visa-free transit for China.
I am booked on China Eastern from Osaka to Chiang Mai as follows:

• Sept 2nd: KIX to Kunming on CE 748. This flight departs KIX at 16:50 and arrives in Kunming at 00:25 the next day. However, it has a stopover in Shanghai PVG arriving at 18:20 and leaving at 20:55. Both legs are under the same flight number (CE748) although I pressume the immigration control will be done at PVG.
• On Sept. 3rd (same day as arrival in Kunming) at 20:00, I am booked on CE2595 from Kunming to Chiang Mai.
• I didn't do separate bookings, I just introduced Kansai to Chiang Mai when purchasing the ticket.

As I believed that the Immigration control will be done in PVG, and thus I would be slightly over the 24h visa-free transit allowance (arriving PVG at 18:20 on Sept 2nd and leaving Kunming at 20:00 on Sept 3rd), I have appllied for a transit visa at the Chinese Consulate in Osaka. However, on the same afternoon of my application, the Consulate called me to pick up the passport because I don't need visa (I am an EU citizen). The lady in the Consulate said that my travel arrangements fit within the 24h visa-free transit policy.

So, my worries are if this is correct, providing that my total transit, if counted from arrival in PVG, will be around 26h.

Is it that, because my flight Osaka-PVG-Kunming are under the same flight number, my transit time counts since the arrival in Kunming?

I don't want to have problems right after arriving, so any kind of advice is highly welcome!

Thanks

Technically, you are breaking the rule, but I think a letter from the consulate lady (you write it, she prints it on letterhead and signs it) would probably do the trick. The letter should state all relevant details, including the fact that you attempted to apply for a G visa, but were told that you didn't need one.

I asked for that, but she said they are not authorized to give such letters. She let me keep a copy of the application receipt, though, where it is stated that I applied for a G visa on a certain date. That's all.

I don't think it would ever be possible to obtain such a committing letter from them, whatsoever.

She examined my flight details, though, and said because the arrival and departure from KMG are within 24h, there would not be a problem. Yet this seems not to be exact.

Are you aware of any change in this rule since July 1st?

Million thanks!

Based on my understanding, you'd be in violation of the rule, but I would place a lot more confidence in her words than any of ours. Perhaps you could get her mobile number and ask her to be ready for a phone call around the time of your arrival in Shanghai.

Even with a letter, which is incorrect, good possibility you could be denied entrance to China at PVG.

I dare say that the consulate general in Osaka wields a little more power than any of the PVG officials. The returned G visa application is also a nice carrot.

By the time they authenticate the documents you could have already transited China.:p

So true! :p

I am beginning to suspect that perhaps the GC people just "misread" my flight details. If it counts from the arrival at the 1st transit point in China, my transit is 25:30h.

To avoid trouble, maybe I should reapply for the G visa with a diferent booking with longer stopover, to make it more "obvious" that I should have one. :confused:

This bothers me and I'm not sure what the OP should do--there aren't many options. The transit is in violation of the TWOV rule and it sounds like the Consular official in Osaka just didn't want to do the work. It's always a bummer when you can't even rely on officials to know their own rules and work with a foreigner who's trying to do the right thing. I disagree with moondog: the Immigration officials on the front lines at PVG will wield more power than anybody sitting at a desk in Japan.

However, I'm not sure the OP will even make it to China, as boarding may be denied by China Eastern at KIX when s/he shows up with no visa. Or, when Exit Immigration is done at KMG, Chinese official will notice the overage and a scolding and/or fine will be levied on the OP.

OP, what about going back to the Osaka Consulate with your application, try to pick a day/time and get a different person, and demand that you want that Transit Visa. Just don't take no for an answer and insist you need and want the visa. Failing that, what about the Chinese Embassy in Tokyo?

Yes, that's what I will do, as it looks like I need a visa in any case. Also consulting the IATA Travel Center (http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/), which lets you input the hours and dates of arrival/departure, it shows clearly that my case needs a G visa. Hopefully, with some insistance, maybe they will issue it for me.

Unfortunately, info from the CG staff it is always rather unreliable and it is better to double check.

The people at the Chinese consulate in Osaka are generally a pain to deal with and will look for any excuse to get rid of you without having to do any paperwork. The best example of this is that they will attempt to refuse all applications for L visas, insisting that all applications must be made as part of a tour group... Arming oneself with printed regulations and being able to argue in Chinese or Japanese will generally get one of the girls behind the counter to acquiesce and accept the forms, but it's always a battle.

The best approach, in my experience, is to employ the services of one of the agencies across the street from the consulate. They'll be able to get you pretty much whatever you want if you pay enough (including two-year F visas and fake[?] invite letters), and should certainly be able to pull off a lowly transit visa for a reasonable charge.

Scifience, it's very interesting what you say, and I see that I'm not the only one who is having trouble with the people at the CG in Osaka.

In fact, every time I had to go to China from here there is one story or another. They now refuse to accept any L visa application made directly in person. Appearently is the "new rule": you must do it through the agency/vegetable store accross the street, although I am completely unable to see this new regulation stated anythere. This is very annoying.

Another time I applied for a double L, with an invitation made by a Chinese citizen including copy of the passaport, copy of the Hukou, address in China, dates, flights, etc., in order to do a private visit. Of course, they consider such application unacceptable. Instead of the original invitation letter, with the original purpose of travel stated, they ask you to pay the store in front of the GC to obtain fake documentation that, unlike the original one, will be accepted without problem :confused:. If I was a suspicious person, I would be inclined to think that there is some business under the table going on there.

If you need to clear immigration at PVG, the transit time allowed at PVG airport is now 72 hours as long as your passport is one of the 45 nationalities listed (Japan included). If not, better ask China Eastern where you clear immigration and what type of visa you need. There is also a chance that you might not need to get off the plane at PVG and will clear immigration in Kunming, in which case, it's surely less than 24 hours.

For the 72 hour TWOV at PVG, you must then leave from PVG or SHA. You must also stay within the Shanghai area. You cannot fly to another Chinese airport.

The chance of this is 0%.

IMHO, the OP most likely qualifies for transit without a visa according to the lady from the consulate even if it is slightly more than 24 hrs. Also, even if the rules for 72-hour transit say you cannot fly to other cities, I believe that transiting through Kunming to go to Thailand qualifies as leaving Shanghai for a third country.

I actually think with all the trouble the OP has with this ticket, better just refund it (if at all possible) and take another flight and route. China Eastern service is not exactly that great and a 30-hour journey from KIX to CNX with China Eastern is not even ideal without any visa problems. I would suggest you transit through Bangkok, Hong Kong, Macau, Taipei, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, etc.

Your opinion in the first sentence is wrong. The rules are very clear about limits--there is no "grace period" for being just an hour or so over. That's fact, not opinion. The OP risks being denied boarding by MU in KIX. Your second sentence is part wrong, part right. She is clearly in transit, but TWO STOPS IN CHINA means 24 hours maximum even if one of the stops is PEK, PVG/SHA or CAN where s/he ordinarily could have 72 hours. That's also very clear in the regulation.

However, your second paragraph is one I agree with. This routing is lousy. Best to just route with one intermediate stop, likely PVG. Then visa issues go away and the OP gets 72 hours to transit, a much cleaner situation. But I'll bet the OP purchased this on price and can't easily change it without major financial hit. If the penalty is less than the Consular + agency fees for getting the visa, I'd change the ticket.

There is an interesting development: I called the immigration office at Shanghai PVG and explained the problem to the Chinese officer. Surprisingly, he said that, for EU passports in particular, the 24-h visa regulation is not that strict and that, in fact, the lady in the Consulate in Osaka is right when she says I do not need a G visa for this transit. According to the officer at PVG, whether the total transit time is 23h, 26h or 25:40h as in my case, is practically the same thing regarding the the 24h TWOV rule (provided, of course, that I have a confirmed flight booking out of China).

I might just call the airline, to make sure I won't be denied boarding in Kansai, and try how it goes.

The simple fact that she went out of her way to CALL YOU gave me a considerable amount of confidence wrt your situation.

I'm not convinced and I'd remain uneasy if faced with this situation. Ultimately, it's still going to be up to the discretion of MU staff at check-in and if that is successful, with the officer/supervisors on duty at PVG Immigration at arrival time.

However, perapoma, it's your butt so you're the one who's got to gamble or not. If you try it without a visa, do report back and let us know if you were able to board and get through Immigration without hassles, or if you had trouble but were able to talk your way out of it....or something else.

Yes... Quite a headache with this issue already. MU staff at KIX also don't want to hear much abut me trying to board the plane without a G visa, but this is at odds with what the GC and the PVG Immigration officer said. In the end, it seems I'll just maybe be better off applying again and getting it done at once.

In any case, I saw in other threads that people were commenting about when the first stop in China is marked as a "technical stop". Does anyone know if this make any difference? Actually, in my ticket it is stated: MU748 Osaka to Kunming (1 technical stop in PVG).

Thanks

You will enter China @ PVG, technical stop or not, which means your stay will be longer than 24 hours. That having been said, I honestly feel very good about your chances of success. Please try to get a phone number of someone at the Osaka PRC consulate that you can call when you are at KIX or PVG.

TWOV was never intended to punish people who book one-stop flights on Chinese airlines. I REALLY think you'll be okay.

The Osaka woman and the Chinese immigration officer with whom the OP discussed the situation by phone will not be on the scene and probably won't be available by phone even if someone is willing to try to call when the OP tries to board and again upon arrival at PVG. They aren't the one's who will be making the decision, which the OP hopes will contradict written policies not once but twice. I'd worry about MU allowing the OP to board and then about not entering China but being able to get Chinese visas in the future. This is my reaction, but I'm also inclined to defer to moondog's knowledge of Chinese ways.

OTOH, 72 hours in Shanghai sounds much better than this brutal itinerary. Maybe the OP can change the flights on grounds that the details and resulting need for a transit visa weren't properly disclosed; a technical stop sounds innocuous and doesn't seem to imply that one must deplane and be processed by immigration and customs.

Definately moondog has expert knowledge regarding this issue.
However if OP had the same, most probably wouldn't be posing the question.
Would just do it.

Japanese citizens can stay in China for 14 days without a visa, and are not limited to Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangdong.