Originally Posted by moondog (Post 19991426)

I found the classroom instruction I received at my university in the US to be far better than its equivalent. Granted I did the drill in a forgotten era when most of the textbooks were abominable (including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton), but the teachers just weren't very engaging. IMO if your goal is to learn the language in order to communicate in business and social settings, plus read newspapers and watch TV (as opposed to preparing to enroll in a PhD program at Peking University), getting a reasonably solid background before arriving and using your time in China to apply it in real life is the way to go.

Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 19989000)

I agree with you that characters are more difficult to learn than the spoken language, but strongly disagree with you on the particular point I bolded. I know many people who have learned to speak quite good Chinese but still can't read worth a d@mn much less write. You learn the important characters you need as you go (men, women, entry, exit, restaurant, etc.) even if you never get to being able to write coherent sentences.

Originally Posted by Braindrain (Post 19999401)

"Good" Chinese is subjective. I guess it's all about the level you're trying to achieve. I know lots of people (HK immigrant children) who can speak Chinese but can't write. However, the polish and complexity doesn't get much further than an elementary school education (at best). I guess it's the same for every language, including English.

Yes, the OP won't need to worry about this on a 1 month course.

Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 19986733)

Be realistic. You're not going to learn much in 4 weeks, at least much that "sticks." If you want to start learning Chinese, do it where you are now. I wouldn't advocate coming to China specifically to learn Chinese unless you're willing to put at least a full summer or equivalent of a semester in, minimum. And I recommend you don't come to China knowing zero Chinese. At the very least, in your current location, find a class or Chinese (Mandarin-speaking) university student now, and have them tutor you in the basics of sound system, pronunciation, common greetings, numbers, etc. You'd get more out of a China-based course if/when you do go. Chinese is not a good language for trying to learn completely on your own, as you'll likely develop bad habits of incorrect pronunciation and intonation without a native speaker to correct you and model speech for you.

BLCU was one of the first universities to teach Chinese foreign students, so it's famous. I attended in 1987 but it's not a good choice any more. Too many distractions and other foreign-language speaking students around....especially those that are just in Beijing to have a good time. If you want to be in Beijing, Beijing Normal University has smaller foreign student population that are more serious, and quality of instruction is supposedly better. Make sure that any University-based course you are considering is focused on speaking/listening if that's what you want...as opposed to reading and writing. I don't think any of the Uni-based courses are best for people with absolutely zero Mandarin. There are also private, non-Uni based language schools and some of them are pretty good. Advantages are that you get personal instruction (can set up as one-on-one or cheaper, join with a small group), and they tend to focus on speaking and understanding unless you specifically request reading/writing also. The schedules are more flexible and short courses they can set up/already have set up, but the per-hour cost is normally higher than Uni-based courses.

It's very difficult for a beginner to do complete true "immersion" classes in Chinese, as it's just not efficient to communicate instructions etc. to people who know nothing. Generally what happens is that after several months and increase in level/ability, the interstitial foreign language prompting/explanations go away and things are pretty much done in Chinese only. I say months, not weeks. As for general immersion, being in China should be enough as long as you are motivated and don't spend 100% of your free time with other foreign students. And there are other places you can go to learn Chinese besides Beijing (which has the disadvantage of being fairly expensive place to live), though I'd tend to choose something in the north for your first round, as Mandarin pronunciation is closer to "standard" and will be easier to understand when out on the street practicing. If you can stand the cold in the winter (or won't be there in the winter), Harbin up in the far northeast is a very good place to go and learn beautiful clear Mandarin. And you won't have the distractions of Beijing.

Again though, be realistic about how little Chinese you'll really know at the end of 4 weeks, though of course your opportunities to practice in the field will be unlimited. I think you'll be better off and cheaper starting at home and seeing if it's for you and how committed you really are....saving an in-China language course for later.

Originally Posted by Braindrain (Post 19999401)

"Good" Chinese is subjective. I guess it's all about the level you're trying to achieve. I know lots of people (HK immigrant children) who can speak Chinese but can't write. However, the polish and complexity doesn't get much further than an elementary school education (at best). I guess it's the same for every language, including English.

Yes, the OP won't need to worry about this on a 1 month course.

Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 19999937)

The "good Chinese" I was referring to = The ability to stand up and give a technical speech in Mandarin to a room full of native speakers; the ability to directly negotiate business deals and contracts without a translator; the ability to run operations with Chinese crews and managers in a factory or job site, etc.

That type of good.

Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 (Post 20005904)

You could probably say the same thing for most Canadians who were forced into a FSL course for 12+ years and only know how to read at a grade school level.

Originally Posted by Braindrain (Post 20007111)

For someone who can't read and can provide technical briefings in Mandarin is nothing short of genius.

Originally Posted by BuildingMyBento (Post 19990731)

Have you traveled much to southern Taiwan? Some ethnic groups in that region have close ancestral ties to the Philippines/scattered Pacific islands, no?

Originally Posted by Taiwaned (Post 19989372)

We studied traditional characters in Taiwan and now that we live in China. It is a real easy transition to simplified. However if you learn simplified characters first, it would be very difficult to study traditional afterwards.