Mavatar

Does anyone out there have any thoughts or suggestions as to what operators/agencies/boats to use (or avoid) if one is looking to book a Yangtze river cruise? I've run into touts that have approx 900-1200 RMB options (for 3/4 days) and have seen tour companies charge into the thousands of US dollars, so I am quite confused.

Mavatar

I forgot to mention that I can leave from either Chongqing or Chengdu, but I suppose getting to Yichang is an option.

jiejie

Yangtze cruises leave from Chongqing, not Chengdu. Questions:

1) Why do you want to do this cruise? Not a trick question, BTW. What's the motivation and your expectations? Many are disappointed especially these days since the Three Gorges Dam has been built.

2) What time of year is this trip? There are definitely times of year when the Yangtze is not at its best...or even visible when fog is thick.

3) What's the rest of the trip look like? What are your other options on the wish list? Most people have a longer wish list than they have time for, and the Yangtze Cruise almost always ends up displacing something better.

To answer your question generally, 3 types of transport on the Yangtze:

a) Foreign tourist-oriented "luxury" cruise boat, like Victoria and some other companies run. The boat is your hotel and your transport. Expensive. You might check out www.cruisecritic.com for comments on the various companies running these.

b) Chinese tourist-oriented budget cruise boat. These can be pretty basic and pretty dirty but much cheaper. This is the type of boat represented by those lower end quotes you are getting. Again, the boat is your hotel and your transport. There will not likely be any English speaking capability. This is best booked from Chongqing or elsewhere in China from a local agent. Just be clear about what you are getting into. If you are fussy, picky, used to luxury, and with little experience traveling local in developing countries, then forget it.

c) Hydrofoil. These are for day transportation only, but people who live in the towns along the river use them extensively to get up and down. They are fast and have an enclosed cabin with seats, assigned on the ticket. Tickets normally purchased on day of or day before travel. There is a platform with an small open area for fresh air and photo taking, on each side of the hydrofoil. It is possible to see the most scenic parts of the Yangtze--from Wushan town to the 3 Gorges Dam--in only a few hours. Also possible to do an overnight on shore and a side excursion by taking hydrofoil part way one day and rest of way to Yichang the next. There is some ancillary bus transport involved. This is cheapest and fastest way to see the Yangtze but few western tourists know about it. You cannot be heavily laden with tons of luggage but a rollaboard and daypack is OK.

All boats are scheduled to go both upriver and downriver, but the downriver is a little faster. Not all of the big cruise boats go through the Three Gorges locks, most of them offload at a pier upriver and then have road transport arranged to Yichang. Or vice-versa if heading upriver to Chongqing. Hydrofoils do not go through the Dam either. And they no longer go all the way to Chongqing, so ground transport from Chongqing to downriver towns Wanzhou, Fengjie, or Wushan is necessary....allow a partial day for that.

Mavatar

1. I don't have particularly high expectations. I suppose I am out for relatively low impact sightseeing that does not involve a lot of planning.

I am not expecting a Seabourne experience and I can tolerate middle to lower-middle class hotels FWIW.

2. Middle of November (next week).

3. I am nearing the end of my China trip and time is not a critical factor. The main alternative to this at this point I suppose is to leave the country, although alternatively I could visit other areas.

jiejie

I'm sure we could come up with other alternatives to the Yangtze cruise if we've known where you've already been, and where/when your exit point from China needs to be. I doubt that your "main alternative" is to leave the country.

If you are against spending the kind of cash a Yangtze western tourist boat takes, then just get to Chongqing and head down to the docks/boat offices to see what's heading out during that week. There might be one of the more decent Chinese boats going out, and should be able to get a 4/3 cruise for RMB 2000 or less. One strategy many people employ on these boats in the off season such as November, is to book a lesser cabin than ask to upgrade once on board. Often the better cabins are going empty, but haggling over the upgrade is the name of the game. There may not be any heat and hot water may only work part of the time and only when the boat is moving. If you don't understand Chinese, try to find some English speaker who can clue you in on the Mandarin announcements. Most of the shore excursions are underwhelming and are reconstructed venues for tourists. If you want to pick one excursion to do (for extra), then Shennong Stream would be it. I would avoid a boat that goes through the locks of the 3 Gorges--usually it's done at night and you won't see anything. You should exit the ship just upriver of that and take the cruise's bus transport to Yichang.

If you need to kill time in/around Chongqing waiting for the sailing, then a daytrip to Dazu Caves is good. Or could head up to Laitan. Or if a few days of waiting, take the bullet train to Chengdu and explore the more extensive possibilities in that area.

I personally would recommend the hydrofoil gambit and speed up the entire Chongqing-Yichang journey to 2+ days with one overnight at Badong by Shennong Stream. But it will take more work/physical exertion and that doesn't sound like what you want to do at this point.

Taiwaned

My wife and I did used the Victoria cruise down the Yangtze a few years ago.

This was PRE three gorge dam completion but it was a good rest for us. The shore excursions were not exhausting and were interesting enough.

If the goal is to get some R & R, its not a bad way to go.

If you do a search for yangtze cruise, there is a thread about this (I'm too lazy to look for it myself)

Mavatar

Unfortunately, the most recent result is from more than a year ago and most of the content in that thread is from 2007.

Mavatar

I've run into touts in both these cities. It appears to need to take a bus (from either city) to yet another city further down the river (I neglected to write it down but obviously it's much closer to Chongqing than Chengdu).

Mavatar

I been to the following places:
Beijing
Shanghai-Nanjing-Suzhou-Hangzhou
Changsha-Changde
Kunming and area
Chongqing (briefly)
Chengdu (briefly)

I'm currently in Zhangzha, Jiuzhaigou and will be making my way to Chengdu by the middle of next week. I'm out of ideas of where to go next within China, so that is why I stated my alternative is to leave.

My scheduled return to North America is actually in January via Shanghai, but my 60 day limit here is on Dec 1. Before that limit is reached, I will head south to SE Asia (any of Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.), but I have no rock solid plans at this point. Therefore, I do not have a particular exit point I need to reach right now.

jiejie

Oh goodness, you're in good shape and if you don't know when or if you will be coming back to China, take advantage of as much of the 60 day allowance as you can, the timing will never be better than the present. Please dump that Yangtze Cruise and make a new quickie plan. Let's say Day 0 is your arrival from JZG back to Chengdu.

Plan 1--Lazier Plan--Chengdu to Guilin area to SE Asia

--Day 1: Chengdu. Pandas in morning, Sanxingdui early afternoon, Chengdu city (like Jindi or Kuai Zhai pedestrian streets) late afternoon into dinner time. (Overnight Chengdu)
--Day 2: Leshan Buddha daytrip + an old town like Ping'le or Luocheng. Leave first thing in morning, return late afternoon. (Chengdu)
--Day 3: Dujiangyan Irrigation system or Chengdu City (Dufu Cottage, Wenshu temple) during day. Evening flight to Guilin. (Overnight Guilin due to arrival time)
--Day 4: Car or bus to Yangshuo in morning. Yangshuo area (Yang)
--Day 5: Relaxing in Yangshuo area (Yang)
--Day 6: Relaxing in Yangshuo area (Yang)
--Day 7: Car or van up to Rice Terraces area in morning. Afternoon walking around Terraces (Dazhai village area)
--Day 8: Sunrise and morning at terraces. Afternoon return to Guilin and either fly onward or stay overnight and fly to SE Asia next day.

Plan 2--Active Plan--Chengdu to Yunnan to SE Asia

--Day 1 and 2 same as above
--Day 3: Morning flight Chengdu to Lijiang. Afternoon Lijiang town. (Lij)
--Day 4: Baisha, Shuhe village/valley or Jade Dragon Snow Mtn Park. (Lij)
--Day 5: Tiger Leaping Gorge daytrip (if a hiker, can do an overnight and stay at the gorge). (Lij)
--Day 6: Lijiang to Shaxi village in morning, afternoon walking in and around the village and valley. Overnight Shaxi guesthouse.
--Day 7: Morning Shaxi to Dali via Jianchuan. Afternoon Dali. (Dali)
--Day 8: Dali area (Dali)
--Day 9: Bus (faster) or train back to Kunming. (Kunming)
--Day 10: Bus to Jianshui south of Kunming morning. Afternoon Jianshui (Jianshui)
--Day 11: Bus or car to Yuanyang Rice Terrace area morning. Afternoon Terrace area (Yuanyang).
--Day 12: Yuanyang Rice Terrace area (Yuanyang)
--Day 13: Bus to Hekou and Vietnam border, about 3-ish hours. (there are other alternatives such as returning to Kunming to fly elsewhere, or going overland to the Laos border crossing which is farther away).

Given your time frame, my recommendation is plan 2 but you may already be too tired. Many permutations can be done, like hanging out and relaxing in Lijiang or Dali, getting to Kunming, then flying onward to SE Asia from there. It's just a good time of year to travel in these parts, cool and not humid, and not too many tourists. I prefer Yunnan to Guanxi/Guilin Area, but nothing will be redundant with the places you've already seen.

Particularly if you want to fly to SE Asia, Kunming is the best place since there are nonstop flights to all the nearby SE Asian countries from there.

Note: if your intent is to cross to Vietnam overland, you'll need a visa in your passport beforehand (can't do the VOA thing). If you don't already have, Kunming has a Vietnamese Consulate but plan enough time at least to get a rush passport. Laos land border or fly-in can get VOA. Cambodia can get VOA.

Mavatar

Thanks for the detailed itineraries. I'll have to examine them in more detail, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I've already been to Lijiang and Dali (when I went to Kunming), and went to Leshan (as well as Emeishan and Huanglongxi), as well as the Panda Research Base while I was in previously in Chengdu.

jiejie

OK, in that case, alternatives:

Plan 1: Stick with Chengdu, stay a day or so and see Sanxingdui, maybe Dujiangyan, or just relax and eat good food. Then head to Guilin and the Yangshuo area as previously described. Up to you whether you want to head for Chongqing and insert the Yangtze by some methodology. Ending in Yichang, bullet train now open to Wuhan which is a big mess of chaos but probably easiest place to fly to Guilin or elsewhere.


Plan 2: (If you have not been to Xi'an yet).
Day 1-Change routing and fly morning from JZH to Xi'an nonstop. Rest of day in Xi'an. (Xi'an)
Day 2- Xi'an (Xi'an)
Day 3- Luoyang (by bullet train); grottoes and underground tombs museum. Dinner, massage, shower in evening. Overnight (1 am) train to Yichang.
Day 4- Arrive Yichang mid-morning. Get ticket for early afternoon upriver Yangtze hydrofoil to Badong. Mid-afternoon arrival, check into hotel and arrange for next day Shennong Stream trip. (Badong)
Day 5- Morning Shennong Stream trip. Mid-afternoon/last upriver hydrofoil to Fengjie. (Fengjie)
Day 6- Bus to Chongqing. What's left of afternoon Chongqing City sights--Huguang Guildhall. (Chongqing)
Day 7- Daytrip to Dazu Caves. (Chongqing)
Day 8- Midday flight to Guilin; transfer by road to Yangshuo.
Day 9-12: Yangshuo and Rice Terraces as previously outlined
Day 13: Fly Guilin to SE Asia, likely via connection

If you find that the Yichang-Badong stretch is enough Yangtze for you and you want to bail on the rest, then going by road Badong to Enshi (not a great quality road BTW, so if bad weather don't do this) is viable. Enshi is an interesting little city with mostly Tujia people. The area around Enshi and Lichuan is interesting culturally and scenically, can hike the Enshi Grand Canyon, hike in the humongous Tenglong Cave, Tujia and Dong villages, etc. But few tourists and maybe difficult to deal with if you can't speak some Chinese. IMO, a "hidden gem" area of China. From Enshi and Lichuan the new railway is open all the way to Chongqing so can pick things up there.

Plan 3:
Day 1: Chengdu
Day 2: Fly to Xiamen on the coast. Xiamen city (Xiamen)
Day 3: Gulangyu Island (Xiamen)
Day 4: Yongding tulou/Hakka area (recommend overnight there)
Day 5: return to Xiamen, ferry to Kinmen Island Taiwan. (Kinmen Isl)
Day 6: explore Kinmen (Kinmen)
Day 7: return to Xiamen by ferry in morning, fast train to Quanzhou (Quanzhou)
Day 8: return to Xiamen to fly onward. Nonstop flights available to SIN, KUL, BKK on some days, or anywhere, any day via connection. This would be a nice coastal trip. Also combinable with Guilin or elsewhere. Quanzhou is another of the PRC's hidden gems, worth adding another day. You can also head further north to Fuzhou (not much there) then over to the Wuyuan villages in the corner of Jiangxi province.

Note that you would be crossing a border when you take the ferry to Kinmen Island, then re-setting your 60 days when you return to the PRC. As long as you have a multiple-entry, no issues, this is the easiest immigration out and in I've ever made in China.

I have not included Zhangjiajie or Huangshan because something tells me you have already seen those.

moondog

I've heard great things about Nanning (we have an office there, though I haven't been myself yet). There are several hostels in Nanning that can arrange Viet Nam visas for around y400 and also procure train tickets for you.

Mavatar

Thanks again. I think my first inclination is to stay in Chengdu a couple of days, then eventually make my way to Xiamen (maybe via Xi'an if the weather there is still decent?).

Getting a multiple entry visa, at least for Canadians I have found, is very tough. I only have a double entry visa so I would like to preserve the second entry for my return (though it may not be necessary if I limit my transit in PVG to less than 48 hours). One idea I had is to go to Kinmen Island, then eventually make my way to the "mainland" of Taiwan and fly out of Taipei. Query if that is feasible or logical.

jiejie

Yes, very feasible and very logical. In fact, it is probably the cheapest way to get from the PRC to Taiwan, via short inexpensive flight from Kinmen airport to main Taiwan island. Mostly to Taipei TSA and Kaohsiung but also a couple of other places. You can check out the schedule on flightstats.com, Kinmen's airport is KNH. On any given ferry from Xiamen, you'll most likely spot a clutch of Taiwanese businessmen based in Fujian, returning home via the Kinmen ferry-air method. Outside the ferry terminal are taxis lined up that go directly to the airport, and the ferry terminal at Kinmen has a Taiwan domestic flight ticket and check-in desk right after you come out of Customs. I think flights between Kinmen and Kaohsiung can be as little as USD 60 one-way. You can also buy a combined ferry + air ticket from Xiamen to Kinmen to Taiwan, but I think pay a premium for convenience. So I'd just buy separately. Ferry is RMB 160 all-in, one-way, purchased on the spot at either of the two Xiamen ferry terminals. No need to book in advance. Plane ticket can be bought as walk-up or online from the airlines' websites.