drewguy

Alright China travel experts, I'm adding family (wife, 9yo daughter) to business trip in late June/early July (I know-not optimal time). Flying in/out of PEK.

We have ~2 weeks. I have seen Beijing and part of Xi'an (Terracotta warriors) but realize they should see both those things. After that??

Plan so far
Day 0 - Arrive BJ
Day 1, 2, 3 in BJ - 1 day: Great wall; 1 day: Tiananmen Sq., Forbidden City, Beihai; 1 day: Temple of Heaven; Lama Temple; Summer Palace (could be mixed up some)
Day 4 - Travel to Xi'an [actually, we could do this at the end as well--so days 10-13]
Day 5 - Terracotta warriors; Xi'an city
Day 6 - Zhouzhi nature reserve
Day 7 - Travel to ??

. . .

Day 13 - Return to PEK, then US.

I welcome suggestions on the first part, and also Day 7-12. My wife has mentioned Shanghai (and Hangzhou), and I'm also interested in Guilin. Jiuzhaigou might be another attractive possibility, particularly in summer, when I suspect Guilin will be quite hot (not that the rest won't be very hot as well. If we did Shanghai before Beijing it would be Day 11 and 12, plus part of Day 10 (after travel). That would leave Day 8 and 9 for Jiuzhaigou or Guilin for 2 days, plus whatever part of day 7 we have after travel.

Also, is four cities/places overly ambitious? I've been to China several times, but mainly Beijing, and I'll confess I don't feel "at home" there by any stretch (extremely limited Chinese). And my wife and daughter are good travelers but not wild about getting way outside their comfort zone, so I'm not looking for totally exotic/out of the way.

More specifics: We like both city-type sights and also nature. Our past trips have included both walking around cities to see museums, sights (e.g., Paris, London, Dublin) but also nature (US national parks, rural Ireland and England). A mix of the two isn't bad, and with this plan we'd have ~7-8 days in cities and ~3-4 in more natural areas, which I think is a decent mix.

Thanks for advice.

(Oh, one other thing--because my trips to China have been business, our travel agent has booked internal China tickets. What's the best approach for that when I'm buying myself?)

travelinmanS

After Xian I'd go to Chengdu, check out the city, go to a Sichuan tea house, see the pandas and go to Leshan for the Buddha and emeishan for some hiking/nature (albeit crowded nature). That'll take 3 days. Then go to Shanghai and take a day trip to Hangzhou or Suzhou as you see fit. Shanghai, especially in the French Concession is a perfect walking city. Make sure you stay on the Puxi side. Then you can fly or train it back to Beijing from Shanghai for your flight home.

www.ctrip.com will get you anywhere you want to go in China. If that doesn't work then www.elong.net will also work. Enjoy your trip.

freezefactor

Maybe Dali and/or Lijiang would be a good option? A bit less hot in the summer, but it is starting to get into the rainy season there. But it sounds a bit like what you are looking for -- some shopping, nice old towns combined with close access to nature. Lots of foreigners go there as well, so it really isn't off the beaten track anymore.

I've never been to Jiuzhaigou - always been meaning to - my impression is that it might be a bit isolated for you, although apparently hordes of tourists are going there now so I could be wrong about that. But it would be the best time of year to go visit.

Dunhuang might be an interesting option if you are interested in history of the Silk Road, and there are interesting activities to do there as well. It's a desert, so it will be super hot while you are there, at least in the day time - but at least it's not the humid heat that you'll get through most of southern China.

jiejie

4 places in 2 weeks is doable but you'll need to not let the grass grow under your feet. My 2 mao:

1) Skip Guilin. That's a long way and the best stuff (outside Guilin itself) deserves 3 or 4 days. Plus, it's the place most likely to be rainy during your time frame. And you don't have time for Hangzhou or even Suzhou.

2) I like the Beijing-Xi'an-Jiuzhaigou-Shanghai-Beijing plan. Or it could be done in the opposite direction. The following assumes the former.

3) Days 1,2,3 BJ. Day 4 fly am to Xi'an, rest of day there. Day 5,6 Xi'an and Zhouzhi; watch the weather forecast and put the best day for Zhouzhi. Day 7 fly am to Jiuzhaigou, can either start there or at Huanglong. Days 8,9 Jiuzhaigou. Day 10 am fly to Shanghai Hongqiao via Chengdu connection, should be able to get to Shanghai early afternoon. Day 11 Shanghai. Day 12 bullet train to Beijing, misc sights and shopping and overnight. Day 13 whatever time you have left in BJ then fly home.

4) Flights you can book yourself on one of the agents recommended here (read the Master Transportation Thread so you understand the setups). Now is not a bad time to book and particularly to get in/out of JZH. Train can be purchased in BJ for the SH-BJ bullet trip, which I'd recommend you experience, particularly one of the <5 hour G services.

drewguy

Putting aside the limited time in Shanghai on your suggested itinerary, is neither of these possible as a day trip from Shanghai (long day)?

johnathome

You can easily do a day trip from Shanghai. Suzhou or Hangzhou can be reached by train and then a taxi from the train station to the city centre.

I also have never been to Jiuzhaigou but hear it is very nice though but it is a fairly long drive from Chengdu.

As for your other question, 4 places in 2 weeks is doable but you won't have much down time. With a 9 year old, just make sure she can handle the hustle.

Not sure where you are flying to but any chance you can change your return ticket to depart from Shanghai as that would save you a day plus.

Taiwaned

You fly Chengdu to Jiuzhaigou.

Wife and I did this route a few years ago. As jiejie mentioned, holding a baby panda in your arms is truly a memorable China experience. My wife face still lights up every time she remembers the experience.

jiejie

Logistically, yes doable, but for goodness sakes' put some context around the question. 1.5 useable days + 2 evenings in Shanghai alone is enough for most tourists. However, it's not enough to also see another city nearby even as a day trip. Is Shanghai a priority or is it not? If you want Shanghai-Hangzhou-Suzhou-water town, I'd allot 5 days in some combination including intercity travel. However, this may or may not be the desired plan for your family. Certainly it's not inclusive of much in the way of "nature." Putting more time into this area means cutting back somewhere else.

You are in danger of making the classic mistake of trying to cram too much in. And running all over China. You need to take a couple of things into account:
1) Geography. With only two weeks, it's just not smart to run all over the place, even if you are flying. Every time you change cities by flight, consider 1/2 day gone and sometimes more, once you add in airport procedures, getting to/from airport, etc. Since Beijing is your gateway, I'd draw a line from Shanghai/Hangzhou to Chengdu and choose from destinations above that line.
2) Logistics. While it sounds nice and easy to plan a trip with 4 dots on a map then connecting them by flights, it doesn't always work out to be time effective, due to having to adapt your plan to available flight schedules. You have to be careful that one intercity move doesn't leave you with awkward and useless blocks of hours on both ends. And some city pair connections are worse for this than others. Willingness to take overnight sleeper trains can optimize time (not necessarily rest quality) but I don't get the impression you and family are up for this.

Of suggestions made above, Chengdu might be a possibility as it has some things in the vicinity to see, and is a good transport hub. I would scrap the following for this trip:
--Dali/Lijiang: Too far away and some fairly expensive logistics. Great places but better part of a more focused Yunnan plan. Along with surrounding areas, would not devote less than 1 week in this area. And likely will need at least one additional day/night for connection in Kunming or Chengdu.
--Dunhuang: Way too far off and logistically time consuming to get to/from. Makes no sense to go unless this itinerary is devoted to Silk Road.
--Guilin: per my previous comments. Guilin city is not the place you want to be, it's the surrounding towns (Yangshuo and Longsheng Rice Terraces as your bases). Lots of outdoor activities, which will be disrupted if you get rain...which is likely and can be heavy. It's a good area to visit but your timing is not favorable.

If you want to gamble on the Guilin area, then on Day 4 fly to Guilin and transfer immediately to Yangshuo. Days 5, 6, 7, in area, then fly to Shanghai for that region Days 8, 9, 10, 11. I would recommend returning to Beijing on the 12th for an overnight and I still recommend doing this segment by bullet train. I would not advise planning a same-day domestic flight connection to an international flight due to possibility of delays and misconnects. You can save some sights and shopping in Beijing for the last day.

Xi'an: You seem to have that on the itinerary as a "must see", which may be
imaginary on your part. If your wife and child are not rabid for Warriors and other historical things this city has to offer (given that they'll see plenty of history/culture in Beijing), then cut this city off the itinerary entirely. Not sure why you are devoting one day of a 13-day trip to Zhouzhi? If it's to see pandas, that's more efficiently done in 1/2 day in Chengdu.

After reflecting some more, I think Jiuzhaigou is not a good idea if you include Xi'an, Zhouzhi, Shanghai, and Hangzhou (or Suzhou) in the itinerary. Even with flights, it just eats up too much logistical time. And it is an expensive place (entry fees) to visit. I wouldn't go to Jiuzhaigou unless you have at least 2 full days excluding travel days.

drewguy

Thanks Jiejie - some really helpful thoughts, as well as from others.

On the flight out, I'm locked in to PEK both because of award travel and business travel rules. Plus, it's nonstop to IAD, so flying from PVG would require a stop, just in the US instead of China. As it is, the flight leaves at 6:30p, so it's not crazy to fly to PEK from some other city--the day is gone, sure, but I'd rather lose that day than get only part of it back and give up a day elsewhere.

I'm torn on Xi'an--I'll consult with family, but at least it's above your imaginary line, which I agree makes sense. We'll hit the southern part on another trip, as Guilin etc. isn't the only place we'd like to go, and better not in the rainy season.

So if I spend 3 days Beijing, travel to Shanghai and spend at least 3 days there, that's a week (travel day in there), then I've got 5 days to do something else, with the 6th to get back to PEK from Chengdu or Xi'an.

Seeing pandas in Zhouzhi is not a necessity--I picked up the idea that might be an easier alternative than Chengdu, and could be combined with Xi'an. But perhaps the better course is to use those 5 days to travel to Chengdu and Juizhaigou, and then back to Beijing.

moondog

Backtracking to Beijing is not necessary, in my opinion.

drewguy

It's necessary for my flight. Flying from another city creates hassles I'd rather not deal with.

jiejie

Yes, I took the return to Beijing as a given though it is not desireable and basically steals a day from more worthwhile pursuits.

Additional thoughts:

1) Not sure where you picked up the idea that Zhouzhi is an easier alternative for Pandas than Chengdu. It's accessed from Xi'an, but needs 2.5 hours' drive EACH WAY, which on what's essentially a 12-day trip is not a wise use of time.

2) Beijing -Shanghai (area) - Chengdu - Jiuzhaigou - Beijing would be feasible. Leaving Xi'an out of the mix if that's the family's prioritization. Or Chengdu - Xi'an. Or Jiuzhaigou + Xi'an (prob minus Zhouzhi). 2 out of those 3.

3) If you are determined to do a final domestic connection to your international flight home, leave a lot of time--preferably flying to BJ in the morning. You can always absorb extra time in the city.

4) In fact, #3 bothers me so much that I would be tempted to change plans and backload Beijing at the end of the trip. If the incoming flight arrives at PEK at an hour that allows a domestic connection, I'd recommend heading immediately for Shanghai and do that first, then continue on. Or, if incoming flight is scheduled late (after 7- 8 pm), spend the night at a city hotel in town (if bullet training) or at airport (if flying) and head to Shanghai that first morning. IMO Beijing has better shopping for things tourists like to buy, vs other places on your itinerary, so the secondary advantage of backloading Beijing is not having to schlep the purchases along for the rest of the trip.

JDiver

In and about Xi'an the terra cotta warriors of Emperor Qin Shi Huang are certainly an item - but walking (or bicycling) the massive Ming dynasty walls, and visiting the tomb of the Han emperor Jing Di to view thousands of funerary figurines dating from the second century B.C.E. are also worth the effort. The statues of Jing Di, which originally had wooden arms and silk garments, depict all walks of life—a stark contrast to the martial figures of the terra cotta warriors.

mnredfox

I also vote for Chengdu. It will give you a view of western China which is far different from the Eastern seaboard. Pandas are cute, and a trip to Jiuzhaigou will be well worth it.

mlasser

My wife and I spent a week doing Beijing-Datong-Pingyao-Xian before heading to Tibet for a week. It was rushed but doable. FWIW, we loathed Beijing. My second time there and I wouldn't spend another day there unless it was for work. Taxis will gouge you for 10x the rates they should charge especially if you have a wife and kid in tow. Tourist touts are ruder and as prevalent as India which may bother your family if they aren't used to it. If you've traveled to other parts of Asia, you'll be shocked at how rude and pushy the Beijingers are. The subway works well but every train is a local so they are slow and connections between lines underground can require ten minutes walks in some places. You'll be pushed and shoved considerably so prepare you're 9 year old for the physicality. Having been twice, my advice would be to see the Forbidden City and get out of dodge. I know that's a deflating statement, but towns like Pingyao and cities like Xian and Chengdu are much better experiences.

The great wall is an annoying tourist trap, expensive and nearly impossible to get to without being taken for a ride to jade and ceramic tourist shops with inflated prices and tacky merchandise. Even paid drivers and tours arranged by your hotel will not be able to dodge them and they'll suck up half your day. If you do decide to make a half day of it, you'll have enough time to see it, take a picture, turn around and get back into Beijing's perpetual traffic jams. Black cars were asking for 1000 rmb to Mutainyu. Metered cabs will simply refuse to take you. We arranged a car service for 7AM and paid what we thought was a decent to high price. They never showed up. After lot's of texts and calls and my wife getting upset because it looked like we weren't going to make it, we finally got a driver at 9:30 am. Since we had a 4PM train that afternoon, we had about 30 minutes at the wall. There is a new train to Badaling, but I haven't taken it. That must surely be a better alternative than taxis or car services.

Temple of Heavenly Peace is a big nothing since you can't go inside. Summer Palace is also a full day. Subway there from Dongcheng takes over an hour each way and taxis might charge as much as 600 rmb to a tourist.

The day trip to Datong to see Yungang caves was worth it and the food, if you're at all a dining tourist, was incredible in Pingyao and especially in Xian. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Shaanxi/Shanxi food movement in the next decade among elite chefs. I'd put Xian in my top ten global food cities easily.

I've also done the Chengdu (Pandas, Renmin Park Tea, Hotpot)-Leshan-EmeiShan route and loved it. Chengdu is not an easy or fast city to move around in though so give yourself 3x what you think you need to visit any given location.

Leshan was awesome.

I hiked to the top of Emei Shan. It's an intense workout that took me two days with a friend and we hike the Rockies in Colorado. You can probably take the bus up and hike down in a day, but it will be hell on your knees. Keep in mind, the entire hike will be on stone stairs, not a dirt trail, so there is a lot of impact and upper thigh strain. All that said, I'd do it again.

And Tibet was an experience beyond words. Not easy to get to but very easy once you're there.

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