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-   -   Driving Into China (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china/1331473-driving-into-china.html)

Scifience Apr 1, 2012 7:30 pm

Driving Into China
 
Every time this question comes up on an English-language forum, it seems that the answer is that it's essentially impossible. There's a self-proclaimed "definitive" thread over at the Thorn Tree that says you must hire a guide and pay US$5,000 in various fees, and even then, it probably won't happen. A few random blog posts I've found on Google seem to concur with this assessment.

It seems the most common reason cited for all of this mess is the need for a Chinese-issued driving licence, visas, or, in the case of routes that would traverse Tibet, the usual TTP issues. Presumably, you'd need a carnet de passage, or some other type of import paperwork, but I can't find anything clear on exactly what is needed. Searching in Chinese turns up a few results, but almost all of them (for obvious reasons) deal with driving a Chinese-registered car out of China, and not the other way around.

At least two of these issues don't apply in my case: I have a valid Chinese driving licence, and a valid Chinese residence permit. Logically, if one can legally drive around China unaccompanied while driving a Chinese registered vehicle, it would seem that the same should be possible with a non-Chinese registered car once any customs issues were cleared up. Moreover, I've personally seen the odd Laotian, Mongolian, and Russian-plated vehicle in China, further indicating that there's some way to do this.

I tried phoning the Urumqi customs office, and while I finally managed to speak with someone who assured me that they understood exactly what I wanted to do and that it was theoretically possible and entirely legal, they hadn't the faintest idea what paperwork was needed or how to go about getting it. The woman I spoke with suggested that I might contact a travel agent. Maybe the PSB. Or was it the 交通运输部道路运输司? She wasn't sure. :rolleyes:

Does anyone here perhaps have an idea of how to do this? I've been toying with the idea of entering the 2013 Mongol Rally, travelling through Kazakhstan, entering China via Korgas from Almaty, and then exiting China to Mongolia at the Takashiken/Bulgan crossing. According to the Rally organisers, this has never been done, which makes it seem all the more enticing ...

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

moondog Apr 1, 2012 7:54 pm


Originally Posted by Scifience (Post 18316560)
Every time this question comes up on an English-language forum, it seems that the answer is that it's essentially impossible. There's a self-proclaimed "definitive" thread over at the Thorn Tree that says you must hire a guide and pay US$5,000 in various fees, and even then, it probably won't happen. A few random blog posts I've found on Google seem to concur with this assessment.

It seems the most common reason cited for all of this mess is the need for a Chinese-issued driving licence, visas, or, in the case of routes that would traverse Tibet, the usual TTP issues. Presumably, you'd need a carnet de passage, or some other type of import paperwork, but I can't find anything clear on exactly what is needed. Searching in Chinese turns up a few results, but almost all of them (for obvious reasons) deal with driving a Chinese-registered car out of China, and not the other way around.

At least two of these issues don't apply in my case: I have a valid Chinese driving licence, and a valid Chinese residence permit. Logically, if one can legally drive around China unaccompanied while driving a Chinese registered vehicle, it would seem that the same should be possible with a non-Chinese registered car once any customs issues were cleared up. Moreover, I've personally seen the odd Laotian, Mongolian, and Russian-plated vehicle in China, further indicating that there's some way to do this.

I tried phoning the Urumqi customs office, and while I finally managed to speak with someone who assured me that they understood exactly what I wanted to do and that it was theoretically possible and entirely legal, they hadn't the faintest idea what paperwork was needed or how to go about getting it. The woman I spoke with suggested that I might contact a travel agent. Maybe the PSB. Or was it the 交通运输部道路运输司? She wasn't sure. :rolleyes:

Does anyone here perhaps have an idea of how to do this? I've been toying with the idea of entering the 2013 Mongol Rally, travelling through Kazakhstan, entering China via Korgas from Almaty, and then exiting China to Mongolia at the Takashiken/Bulgan crossing. According to the Rally organisers, this has never been done, which makes it seem all the more enticing ...

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I've heard that WFE's are permitted to import one or two cars per year, tax free. Any decent PRC lawyer would be able to advise on this. But, in your case, buying a car in China would be a lot easier, no?

Scifience Apr 1, 2012 8:19 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 18316660)
I've heard that WFE's are permitted to import one or two cars per year, tax free. Any decent PRC lawyer would be able to advise on this. But, in your case, buying a car in China would be a lot easier, no?

I have a car registered in China, which I could easily drive to Mongolia (the regulations on this are clear). But the rules of the Mongol Rally stipulate that the same vehicle must be driven from London all the way to Ulan Bator.

Creating a WFOE solely for the purposes of a stupid adventure seems somewhat excessive, but I'll keep that in mind if I can't figure out another way to do this (and insist on pursuing this crazy scheme). Thanks for the suggestion! ^

moondog Apr 1, 2012 9:14 pm


Originally Posted by Scifience (Post 18316763)
I have a car registered in China, which I could easily drive to Mongolia (the regulations on this are clear). But the rules of the Mongol Rally stipulate that the same vehicle must be driven from London all the way to Ulan Bator.

Creating a WFOE solely for the purposes of a stupid adventure seems somewhat excessive, but I'll keep that in mind if I can't figure out another way to do this (and insist on pursuing this crazy scheme). Thanks for the suggestion! ^

Don't worry about the WFE; if you can figure out how this stuff works, I'd be happy to let you use one of mine.

jiejie Apr 2, 2012 6:27 am


Originally Posted by Scifience (Post 18316560)
At least two of these issues don't apply in my case: I have a valid Chinese driving licence, and a valid Chinese residence permit. Logically, if one can legally drive around China unaccompanied while driving a Chinese registered vehicle, it would seem that the same should be possible with a non-Chinese registered car once any customs issues were cleared up.

Yes, it should theoretically be doable for you without the usual obstacles that tourists/non-resident foreigners encounter. The main issue would be Customs, and that is that the car is temporarily imported then exported again, no intent of sale involved. My understanding is that Chinese Customs requires a sizeable bond be deposited, which will be refunded once the car actually leaves China. The exact mechanisms by how this happens, and time frames for putting up deposit and then getting the refund, is murky.

I'm not sure if they would give reprieve from emissions/technical standards and inspections...possibly.

As Xinjiang is a bit of a sensitive location, this might be an addition obstacle that traveling from say, Laos to Mongolia might not encounter. However, there's probably no point in being untruthful about this, as your paperwork if approved, will have to have entry and exit points delineated.

Since dealing with a travel agent is going to produce advice that may not be impartial, I'd suggest heading straight for the lion's den--Customs HQ in Beijing--and work your way through the bureaucracy until you find the right person who can give you the right forms. Something akin to a chopped "permission letter" might not be a bad addition to the paperwork pile, if you can swing it.

tauphi Apr 3, 2012 7:56 am


Originally Posted by Scifience (Post 18316560)
Does anyone here perhaps have an idea of how to do this? I've been toying with the idea of entering the 2013 Mongol Rally, travelling through Kazakhstan, entering China via Korgas from Almaty, and then exiting China to Mongolia at the Takashiken/Bulgan crossing. According to the Rally organisers, this has never been done, which makes it seem all the more enticing ...

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

There are two separate issues that you need to deal with:

1) Getting the car into China through Customs.
2) Registering said car so that it can legally be driven on Chinese roads.

Here are some links (in Chinese) dealing with this in Xinjiang:

http://www.cnlaw.cc:88/showcontent.a...elR3JyOMiySnl=
http://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/wsbs/kstd...011/200483.htm

Since you intend to enter and leave China through Xinjiang, you should probably contact Customs/Vehicle Registrations in Urumqi as a start.

travelinmanS Apr 3, 2012 9:28 am


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 18318479)
Since dealing with a travel agent is going to produce advice that may not be impartial, I'd suggest heading straight for the lion's den--Customs HQ in Beijing--and work your way through the bureaucracy until you find the right person who can give you the right forms. Something akin to a chopped "permission letter" might not be a bad addition to the paperwork pile, if you can swing it.

A chopped official form from some customs dude in Beijing wouldn't be enough for me to try and import a car into China via a border crossing in Xinjiang. I'd be much more comfortable with some letter written by an official from Xinjiang, preferable accompanied by letters from the head of the PSB in the town where you are entering and the town you plan to exit from. I'm sure your plan is possible, it's just a matter of whether or not you think the legwork is worth it.

jiejie Apr 3, 2012 4:06 pm

Ideally, you'd have paperwork from both Urumqi and Beijing. I wouldn't dismiss the impact of Beijing permission so lightly. Yes, I know the old saw about "the mountains are high and the Emperor is far away" but for something like this, it's equally possible that Urumqi will be OK with but still want an OK from the bosses above.

If the political/unrest situation in Xinjiang were not so fragile and were not being monitored at the highest levels in China, I'd say Urumqi Customs alone would be OK with calling all the shots. But right now, I'd cover all the bases.

tentseller Apr 3, 2012 5:11 pm

In HKG our corporate motor pool has dual plated (HKG/PRC) vehicles as well as drivers with license/documentation and insurance to operate them in PRC.

jiejie Apr 3, 2012 10:41 pm

Another idea--got any "insider access" to a fake Chinese plate-maker and document forger? Or for that matter, somebody inside Customs? :p

zoobtoob Apr 3, 2012 10:58 pm


Originally Posted by Scifience (Post 18316560)
I've been toying with the idea of entering the 2013 Mongol Rally

Me too!

tauphi Apr 4, 2012 1:37 am


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 18330933)
Another idea--got any "insider access" to a fake Chinese plate-maker and document forger? Or for that matter, somebody inside Customs? :p

You could also try the Taliban, I'm sure they'd know a few unguarded spots along the border. Maybe they'll even throw in an armed escort :D

tauphi Apr 4, 2012 11:48 pm

Hong Kong-registered vehicle seen near Shanghai
 
While not strictly related to entering China via Xinjiang, it's still a sign that things are getting easier:

http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/4c08bff5jw1droo53pq9vj.jpg

mnredfox Apr 6, 2012 7:52 pm

I still would avoid driving in China, with cabs so cheap (relatively compared to western standards) why face the hassle?

jiejie Apr 7, 2012 12:55 am


Originally Posted by mnredfox (Post 18349125)
I still would avoid driving in China, with cabs so cheap (relatively compared to western standards) why face the hassle?

Because I don't think the organizers of the 2013 Mongol Rally (reference to original post) have provision for taking cabs in the rules. :p


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