Trial lawyers didn't help Hu get his job.

Yes, and Wenzhou doesn't have cappers.

Chinese - Americans Ages 56 and 57.

I took the train today and it was very very very empty.

The ride was significantly slower speed than usual. It took 10 minutes longer to go the same distance.

It went really slow over the bridge.

It was pretty creepy.

I've noticed that trains that stop in ~7 places en route are often empty in BJ or SH, but if you go the distance, you can count on this not being the case for long. I felt a bit silly when I splurged for that upgrade last week (pre crash) because 2nd class was half full and 2 second class seats > 1 first class seat. However, at least in my car, every seat was filled at least once during the journey, so perhaps the additional coin was well spent.

In spite of the crash, my interest in flying back and forth between BJ and SH remains close to nil. While I certainly don't fancy meeting my maker in a train wreck, I feel compelled to weigh those odds (WAG = 1:100,000,000) against a 1 hour flight delay (~1:3), and choose the former. As an aside, the LA crash puts things into perspective, statistically speaking (train ridership in China is significantly greater than that in the USA).

I'm planning on starting a new thread about HSR when this current tragedy dissipates because I like it, to the extent that I'm willing to forego miles, and because I feel obligated to use it for the greater good (e.g. I want those random cities in the middle to blossom, in spite of my inability to profit from such).

In closing, I agree that the MOR got caught with its pants down and sincerely regret the loss of life. That having been said, it's impossible to deny the fact that this new infrastructure is a game changer. My money and my mouth are in the same place.

+1. Unless we see a pattern of new accidents I'll assume new trains are just as safe as flying or perhaps driving in LA.

We usually use HSR a couple of times a week. Since we don't know what time we actually finish, it is a case of after work we just head to the station and purchase the next available seat. Usually it is quite full and the wife and myself cannot even purchase tickets side by side but yesterday we could of had a romantic carriage just for ourselves if we wanted to move over to the next carriage.

I am also in total agreement that the HSR is a better way to travel if HSR travels there. I personally can't wait until the HSR goes past Xiamen and eventually connects to GZ.

China rail officials blame crash on signal 'flaw': report
 

Initial US news report:

Don't see any specific citation, however.:confused:

That's pretty technical information...failed to turn the green light into red

the official Xinhua news agency said:

BEIJING — Chinese railway officials have blamed "design flaws" in signalling equipment for a high-speed train crash in which at least 39 people were killed, the official Xinhua news agency said Thursday.

The system "failed to turn the green light into red" after being struck by lightning, Xinhua quoted An Lusheng, head of the Shanghai Railway Bureau, as saying during a meeting on the investigation into Saturday's accident.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...8e075b0b43.1b1

Apparently there are 800+ people in Wenzhou looking for relatives. Some are digging up the buried trains, others are trying to get information at the station.

GZ newspaper story today has a story of a guy who lost his wife and mother in the crash. He wanted to know more information about the crash and was told that if he kept trying he would lose the other 6 members of his family...crazy

I asked my Chinese friends at lunch today why they don't just use the ID numbers we give them to count the casualties...they all said the same thing...this is China, it's corrupt. The government doesn't want to pay those people 500,000rmb...

Basically, a lot more than 36 died

Hmm, I'm pretty sure that guy lost five members of his family and doesn't want to lose the sixth (his father-in-law) who is still in hospital.

I think it is him
 

I think the authority threats him that he might be jailed, if he keeps on. If he is in jail, he will not be able to take care of his father in law. That is, what I think, he meant.

The Accident is definitely a tragety. What happened afterwards is a shame.

Interesting Op-Ed piece
 

Here it is, and in China Daily, no less. The author eloquently puts his finger on one of the most pervasive and troubling drivers of modern Chinese behavior (individual and governmental)--the need to "beat" or "be better than" somebody else.

This story is getting a high level of play here in the US. Something about it every day. Here's today's story:

http://news.yahoo.com/china-train-cr...011250335.html

Looks like some Chinese worker bee is about to be thrown under the bus, I mean, train. Blame it on the rail staff:

"Soon after the crash, domestic media had blamed foreign technology. But Thursday, railway authorities said a signal, that should have turned red after lightning hit the train that stalled, remained green, and rail staff then failed to see something was amiss, the state-run Xinhua news agency said."

While I agree with you that dodging bullets is shameful, I feel compelled to proclaim that China's (nearly nonexistent) tort program is one of the main reasons that makes it an attractive destination for FDI.

Suppose I want to build a playground and my two choices are Changchun and Fresno (similar real estate prices). I will choose Changchun because I can save $500 per square meter (mostly in insurance premiums).

And, if a kid dies on my playground, a fair settlement will be proclaimed within the course of a week; lawyer fees <$2,000.

China's tort laws are in need of an upgrade, for sure (e.g. polished marble floors suck). But, the system seems to work okay at present.

"Faster and Higher" seems to work for their economy.

Beat or be better can be translated into "make more money".

Chinese courts operate on the importance of equity and justice.
US courts rule based on the "law".

A recent high profile case in the US gives an good example of
the possible result when the trier of fact must rule "strictly"
on the "law".

Getting off topic but facinating nevertheless.

Agree with this statement, problem is "equity and justice" for whom? Unfortunately in China, the definition is most times skewed for equity and justice for the rich and powerful or the ones with "guanxi".

It is the primary topic of conversation here in Wenzhou City. Amazing thing here is the attitude of the locals here. "It is what it is" "Sure it is unfair but what can we do?" "This is China" "Justice is for the wealthy" It is almost like they have given up on the concept and accept the decisions of those who are above them.

It is a facinating country.

[QUOTE=Taiwaned;16817608] "Justice is for the wealthy" It is almost like they have given up on the concept and accept the decisions of those who are above them.
QUOTE]

I don't believe economic injustice is a Chinese phenomenon.

[QUOTE=anacapamalibu;16818228]LOL - absolutely not.

However it is so transparent here and it seems like everybody is just resigned to it. This fatalistic resignation in their lot in life.

[QUOTE=Taiwaned;16818937]As a foreigner you should convey to them that the eyes of the world are on them and they should stand tall and every adversity has the seed of an equivalent benefit.

[QUOTE=Taiwaned;16818937]Better than being mesmerized my Rupert Murdoch's empire. Fortunately, Big Brother saw through the "marry a Chinese gal, infiltrate minds" ploy.

As the US government continues on its fatalistic path, I find myself increasingly impressed with the Chinese system (on a relative basis, of course; the US is still better on the whole due to that "constitution" thing).

I also applaud the power of the internet; it appears that Big Brother has his hands tied with respect to 微博.

[QUOTE=moondog;16819127][QUOTE=Taiwaned;16818937]
Better than being mesmerized my Rupert Murdoch's empire. Fortunately, Big Brother saw through the "marry a Chinese gal, infiltrate minds" ploy.
QUOTE]

Old dude ain't quite that savy. More like dragon lady spikes the perp
to insure that prenup payout.

Sadly, in China it takes people dying to get real action. I don't think another train crash will occur at least til next year.

Well it isn't just China, look at the history of safety in the airline industry.

Even CCTV is jumping on the bandwagon now:

http://tv.sohu.com/20110726/n314600374.shtml

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/57371456-1741995950.html

Sorry if the translations are somewhat rough... in any case, from a civil society development perspective, this incident has proven very interesting indeed. And the aftermath appears, dare I say, quite promising.

Who hires the writers for this show?
Terrified..

cctvnewschannel

Tourists terrified to take trains after Wenzhou crash CCTV News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDBowcNFCxA

If alternatives exist, please try to use them instead of youtube, fb, twitter.

Regarding the CCTV thesis, there was a somewhat similar situation in Korea before the IMF crisis of 1997. Frenzied construction boom, "no time" for proper planning or quality controls and then...You remember these accidents?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seongsu_Bridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoon...Store_collapse

But Korea and Koreans learned from these terrible incidents and nowadays are one of the most quality-conscious and-minded people in the World. I would say China has a good benchmarking opportunity at it's doorstep.

No kidding, I still remember the fake licenses issue last year...

Crisis Management 101
Up the payout

Bereaved relatives will receive 915,000 yuan ($142,000) -- 415,000 yuan more than the original amount on offer, the official Xinhua news agency said, as the death toll from the crash near the eastern city of Wenzhou rose to 40.

Press Muzzling Begins...
 

Link

Not surprised, but disappointed that the gutless Chinese print media wonders didn't defy the new directives and roll the presses anyway. Lots of talk, but little action when the chips are down.

The Times is a bit slow to catch on to this; the below propaganda directive has been circulating on 微博 for at least the past 48 hours:

And a rough translation:

So much for Uncle Wen's "open and transparent investigation" ...

Leash the Lawyers
 

^

Law firms in the eastern city of Wenzhou, near where the train crash happened July 23, received an “urgent statement” in the names of the city’s Judicial Bureau and the Lawyers’ Association three days after the accident, Xinhua News Agency reported Saturday.

Lawyers should not handle cases without authorization, because “the accident is a major sensitive issue concerning social stability,” Xinhua said.

excellent WSJ article
 

I hope you all in China can link to this article that was in the WSJ on Saturday. it took up 2 full pages:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...le_Lifestyle_5

Very insightful into the thinking of the Chinese people. Interesting discussion in the comments. Looks like a battle between two Chinese guys, one pro China one anti.

This decision was reversed after it was made public. And it's not necessary an order from Beijing, could be well local interference.

Generally, I think the party is monitoring public sentiment quite anxiously as it's in the process of handing over leading positions to the children of the current elite. So in order to protect the building of political family dynasties so common in Asia, no effort is spared to maintain official harmony.

Anyway, I hope that FT doesn't get too political outside of OMNIl so that members residing in China can also keep up with travel advice even without a VPN connection.

That's very progressive. The Central Party reversed Wenzhou Judicial Bureau and Lawyer's Association notice and decision to refrain from pursuing personal injury cases relative to the rail incident.

The way the chinese government handled the incident is scaring my balls off.

Still intending to take the bullet train to Nanjing this Friday, I have no other choice than taking the train.

You're fine, the Chinese gov is good about not letting disasters of the same kind happen twice (at least in 1 year).

I am posting this while still on the Shanghai to Fuzhou D3101.

It left at 2:35 on time however it stopped outside of Wenzhou near Yueqing train station and hasn't moved for about a hour then it started to move very very slowly to YongJia train station.

At YongJia, it has stopped and the last announcement was, we will have to wait for a while. What should have been less than 5 hour ride is now almost 7 hours and still waiting.

It is obvious the train problems hasn't been properly fixed.

I should have taken the bus.

Hahaha. I never know and all I can do is pray.