Help understanding etiquette in China
 

Hello,

I have a couple questions about etiquette if someone is able to help me understand. Please note I am not criticizing, rather I wish to understand the difference in etiquette to what I'm used to.

1) On trains especially, is there a particular reason why people are not allowed to disembark from the train in in orderly fashion before those waiting to get on the train seem to rush in through the doors?

2) In terms of line-ups or queues, it seems like many people seem to disregard this and push to the front though a queue has been formed or else the queue is formed and then when the store/train actually opens everyone seems to disregard the order and rush in. Also when you are at the counter dealing with someone it seemed common for someone else to join you on the counter when you are trying to pay or have a conversation. Is there a particular reason for this?

3) Crotchless pants for the young children. I've seen numerous times when a child is wearing crotchless pants and is allowed to go to the washroom (both poop or pee) in the middle of the sidewalk, or in an underpass. Is this common? and if so, is there no concern for illness being passed around?

What I'd love to understand is the mentality of individuals who are accustomed to these ways who can perhaps explain them to this foreigner.

Thanks.

On the subway thats because Chinese are lazy and want a seat

At the train station often older males think they are more important than others and cut the line...i love yelling at them and calling them selfish..

I think Chinese arent concerned with hygiene, you should see their behavior at the beaches

What you're asking is not Chinese etiquette, it's philosophy. The dominant philosophy in modern Chinese lives is "执输行头 惨过败家". Loosely, it means "never lose out on anything, or else it's worse than wasting away all your family fortune". It is not just mainland Chinese, but even most people in Hong Kong as well.

If you understand this, you'll understand many things you observe in China. For example, on a train, you have to push and get through because it's worse than eating away your family's fortune if you have to stand instead of sitting. Or, why after the nuclear meltdown in Japan, many Chinese went out to buy tonnes of salt literally. They don't care if it's scientific or anything, but if the neighbor is buying salt, it's worse than wasting away your family's fortune to not do the same.

It even applies to government and corporation's practice. That explains why if others have or have done something (like been to the moon, high speed rail, etc), Chinese have to have it too.

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etiquette in China? You're joking, right?

Thoughts from the other side.

Why do foreigners eat with their hands?
Why do foreigners not take off their shoes, when entering a home?

and most importantly...Why do they stink? :D

I find this thread to be mildly offensive. As much as like to poke fun at things like "sea slug", I am generally grateful for the hospitality I have received --from friends and strangers alike-- over the years.

If you're a slow poke, clear the aisle because the girl with the sharp elbows is on a mission (i.e. aspires to spend Sunday at home).

Here are some thoughts;

1- Lines- chinese view things chaotically . it may be a train line, or a breakfast buffet, one just needs to be abet proactive. The worst/rude lines are subway line 1 in BJ at rush hour.

2- Babies with no diapers. IMO, there are 2 reasons, Its a summer thing, & also a social economic issue. Some just are culturally frugal and desire to save the $ on diapers.

Growing up in the States, I was shocked the first time my family took me to China. I distinctly remember the lack of a queue for boarding an airplane (when folks have assigned seats!).

My grand parents explained that it was always first come first served mentality and the older generation still lives that way. When you have a billion plus people, I guess we'd understand. You can see it here in the NYC when trying to get off the subway in Chinatown and the older Chinese pushing before you can get off. They want that seat so move over.

As for the pants, my parents told me that the lack of public toilets and the cost of diapers made it necessary to let kids go when they needed. Forget about disposable ones which we take for granted thanks to pampers.

I'm less concerned with little kids that go in public than folks who let their dogs go where ever they want and don't clean up.

I do apologize if I've somehow offended people with this thread, I am legitimately interested in trying to find out the differences in culture.

Some of the responses are interesting and ones that I will certainly give some thought to. Others are silly and petty.

Again, I'm not criticizing but there must be a reason things are done so differently here than what I've observed in many other countries I've visited and I was curious what that reason might be.

1) Too many people in too small a space, with historically fierce competition for resources to survive. China is simply way overpopulated and everyone is in the mindset of scrambling, even in urban locations and situations where a wealthier population or guaranteed resource (i.e. assigned airplane seat) no longer requires the scramble.

2) Somebody above already talked about this: Fear of each individual that s/he might miss out on what somebody else is getting. Zero-sum game mentality--if you don't get something, you are a comparative loser. Chinese are not graceful losers.

3) An entire culture that is basically selfish and ultimately has little allegiance to any group beyond the family. This is not a modern (i.e. Communist) invention but goes way back in history. Community Responsibility for the benefit of strangers and wider society is an idea that is in its infancy in China...it's starting to take root but will be a long time developing.

Some people would also posit that lack of any religious tradition in the general population has led to an amorality of behavior over the centuries.

I find that Chinese mainlander behavior today is definitely different from that in other developing, non-Han Asian countries. But I don't think it's inherently an ethnic thing per se. When looking at ethnic Chinese only, you can see the difference between the mainland vs Hong Kong and Singapore, which of course have different histories and where British influence set the tone for many decades, even before Singapore existed and even when HK was relatively poor.

I will say that as far as Beijing goes, queue behavior in public places is generally better than it was several years ago, and I think some of the behavior-modification effort put in before the Beijing Olympics stuck. Not perfectly, not completely, but there is now a significant segment of the Beijing population that is capable of more "civilized" behavior...if they feel like it.

Well you can extend that family.... if they have money. Wenge Deng:)

While I've seen the pants thing it doesn't seem to be quite as bad as you present it. What I've always seen is not directly on the path--say, on the ground around a tree, or in the gutter etc.

The reality is that there aren't enough public toilets for a small kid to be able to reliably hold it until one can be found.


I definitely understand the bit about queues. It's nuts and it can be a problem when I'm out with my wife--I'm usually carrying stuff and that limits my ability to keep up in the crush. (Because of the bulk, not the weight.)

Geez, how much have you traveled? Different people view queues differently. Have you ever been to India? or to the US? I was amazed in India, no queues, everyone pushed and shoved. Arrived in England, everyone (same plane) queued quietly and politely. People in different countries do things differently.

As for the slit pants that untoilet trained children seem to wear-- makes sense to me.

A lot of the split-pants thing can be explained by one phenomenon: grannies taking care of the kids. The older generation still believes that this is the best way to deal with non-housebroken kids, even in households that have enough money to fund diapers, plastic pants, etc. Moms that go back to work (= most Chinese mothers of kids older than 6 months) typically leave their baby or toddler in the care of the nainai/ laolao (grandma on father/mother side), and pretty quickly learn that tangling with grandma's methods on matters of early child care is an exercise in futility.

I see a lot more diapers and little or no split-pants on little kids whose mothers are the primary daily caregiver due to not needing to work. Urban moms (usually under age 35) have a more "western" approach including using either cotton or disposable diapers. In smaller cities and rural areas, split-pants rule. You have to admit that the diaper-rash problem is greatly lessened with the traditional method. :)

-spitting
-smoking in elevators
-dudes who tie off their "wife beaters" at the belly button
-taxi wars
-useless directions
-inability to think outside the box (especially wrt to topics like Taiwan or WW II)
-bad smelling taxis
-worst air quality in the world (I heard that BJ broke a record yesterday!)
-sharp elbows

That's my list. While I dislike this stuff, I am still here. Why? Well, because China is kind of cool.

Several years ago, one of my friends used the "dog years" theory as the basis for his (very successful) b-school applications. The idea is that 1 year in China is equivalent to 7 years in the west. It's true!

On a positive note, we never discuss politics over here (in part because we have no ability to affect change, and in part because we simply don't care).

In closing, I want to advise prospective tourists that the spitting, smoking, and elbows are persistent issues. But, if you can get past that, then come on over!