Suggested Itinerary - soliciting feedback
 

Hi all, and thanks in advance for your patience and forbearance.

I am considering an itinerary like that set out below. I thought I would post it here and solicit feedback. I am wondering whether I am crazy for trying to squeeze in so much?

I'm also worried that there may be obvious highlights or 'essential' sights I should really be visiting but I simply am unaware of.

background information:
1. My wife-to-be and I have never been to China before but are fairly well-travelled globally.
2. This trip is part of the journey from Europe to NZ where we will spend 10 days before getting married the following week in Bora-Bora - so it is a honeymoon/wedding trip.
3. Neither of us has as much as one word of Mandarin or any other dialect.

We are landing in Shanghai PVG on August 6 (around 11 AM) and Leaving from GuangZhao Baiyin (CAN) airport late in the evening of 16th August.

We would like to create an itinerary like the following.

We have some flexibility towards the end of the trip , but we need to stay in HK at a minimum for the 2 nights 12-14 or 13-15 August.

I think we would like to see giulin/hengzhou, but we are open to suggestions and adding a brief trip the 'JiuZhaigou' national park by flying there on 12 August and leaving 13 August to fly to HK could also be of interest.

This is a very early-stage itinerary but as you can see. we are trying to 'squeeze in' as much as possible and have some flexibility to move things around where there are must-see attractions we are not yet aware of.

I'm interested in feedback, suggestions, comments, criticism or pretty much anything except being ignored :-)

You may find, as I did, that you are trying to see too much in one trip. My trip is 16 days on the ground and I started out way more ambitious than what I have. I'm staying in 5 different cities, at least 3 nights in each, so as not to spend all of my time packing, getting to airports, waiting, flying, getting to hotels, and unpacking. Because of the distance and traffic it's going to chew up a half day each time I change cities. And don't forget about jetlag making the first few days a blur.

feel free to read through my thread and see how my trip evolved:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...uld-we-go.html

I suggest you scratch Guanzhou from your list of target cities and figure out a way to slot in Jiuzhaigou, even doing so means skipping Xi'an or Chengdu. Also, the JW Marriott in BJ rates pretty poorly in the price/value respect IMO (City Wall is even worse). The Marriott NE, by contrast, is a steal, and I might be able to help you get the Capital Ren at a reasonable rate. There's no point in staying by the Bird's Nest

You asked for feedback, and mine is: this is a disaster in the making. Unless most of what you want to see are Chinese airports and hotel rooms at night. You need to resist the classic temptation and mistake, to try to see all of China + HK in 10 days--it just won't work, not even a "hit the highlights" tour. You are not understanding that it takes TIME just to get from airport to town, and TIME just to get between sights.

I'm assuming that your intl flights are already booked into Shanghai and out of Guangzhou. I further assume that you are taking that China Southern flight CAN-AKL which is the reason to go back to China from HK. If these assumptions are correct, then...

1) End game: Use CAN only as a transit airport on the 16th, on such a short trip, Guangzhou is not worth wasting a precious day, nor is it worth wasting time on ground transport. That CAN-AKL flight leaves very late at night, which gives you time to fly the short CZ HKG-CAN flight that leaves early evening and arrives at CAN 7 pm-ish. This gives you plenty of time to do an intl-to-intl transit at CAN, and absolves you of the need to have another Chinese visa, or another entry on your first visa. This puts HK for the 14th and 15th and a good part of the 16th.

2) Beginning game: 2 days in Shanghai city itself is enough. Pick either Suzhou or Hangzhou for a daytrip by train, early morning out, evening back. No, it is not possible to combine Suzhou and Nanjing on the same day, and it's not even ideal to try to give each 1 day on successive days. I suggest you skip Nanjing on this trip, it really needs 2 days including the travel to/from. Allot the 6th through 9th for "Shanghai + area" with the afternoon or evening of the 9th for travel to next destination. Assume the 6th will not be too useful for seeing anything.

3) Middle part: This leaves only the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th as full days to see anything else. I am incredulous that you think you can put Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu and also hope for Jiuzhaigou or Guilin/Yangshuo?!? (Your faith in the perfect promptness of Chinese airlines is touching.) IMO, you have the following realistic options:
(a) All Beijing, fly from Shanghai (or Hangzhou) then after fly directly to HK, night of 13th probably;

(b) Xi'an 1 day + Beijing rest of days. I'd do Xi'an first, flying from Shanghai (or Hangzhou) on night flight, 10th sightsee, night of 10th fly to PEK. Understand this short-shrifts both Xi'an and Beijing.

(c) Chengdu + Jiuzhaigou. Fly to Chengdu night of 9th. Pandas first thing in morning 10th. (You MUST schedule pandas early in the day since that is when they are active). Balance sightsee. Fly 11th morning Jiuzhaigou stay overnight, fly 12th back to Chengdu. Can sightsee some more. 13th daytrip to Leshan Buddha or Dazu Caves. Evening fly to HK. No Beijing or Xi'an. Understand the Jiuzhaigou entry cost structure, routes, August weather (can get rain) etc before you commit to this itinerary. Also expect relatively expensive flights to/from JZH. It is inadviseable to tight schedule air connections JZH-CTU then CTU-onward, best to leave lots of time in case of weather delay or other issues.

(d) Guilin/Yangshuo. Fly from Shanghai (possibly Hangzhou) to Guilin but do not stay there except in the event of a very late arrival, transfer immediately (or first thing next morning) to Yangshuo. 2 days there and then ground transport to Longsheng Rice Terrace area for 1-2 days. Fly to HK on 13th aft/eve. No Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu.

(e) Recraft 6th-13th to a loop route: Shanghai-Suzhou/Tongli (water town)-Nanjing-Huangshan (mountain)-Yixian villages-Hangzhou. Fly Hangzhou-HK. This would substitute a Huangshan mountain experience instead of a Jiuzhaigou one. Could craft a good mix of city + traditional village + nature + history sights pretty efficiently. Ground transport based. Save Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu for another time.

Of course there are other great places to go, but I'm not going to add to the already bursting sack of options by making yet more suggestions. You'll have to prioritize according to your own interests and choose. But I will say that given the short time frame and your fixed entry/exit points, it makes most sense to drop north China (Beijing/Xi'an) from this trip and just pick from the central and southern options.

yes yes yes, way tooooo much going on here.....since it's a first trip, SH, BJ, and HK are musts. Personally, I think that Xi'an itself is a waste, but the warriors are a must see. Kind of like Chengdu, but the pandas make it something worth seeing.

I Nanjing a lot more than Hangzhou and Suzhou. HZ especially - the west lake is beautiful and a great site, but other than that it's really just another Chinese city....Nanjing has lots of history, and culture, and wonderful sites - it's easy to navigate and has a wonderful new IC.

Jiuzhaigou is beautiful, but the flight situation makes it annoying to visit.....Actually, you can fly there from Xi'an for the same price as Chengdu I believe and that might simplify the trip a little bit.....can't comment on the weather, but it would be a shame if it's raining the whole time....

I guess no one here can vouch for Guangzhou, but I love the city very much, and have spent a lot of time there for work. It has wonderful wonderful food, and if you indeed decide to spend some time there, I can pass along some restaurant advice. Baiyun airport is new and easy to access. Every decent enough hotel has access to an airport express bus which is a lot easier to deal with and nicer than a taxi especially in terms of luggage.

My only advice in terms of the language barrier is planning in advance. If you have hotels pre-booked and addresses in Chinese for taxis it will make it a lot easier. Hotel pickup in the smaller cities might be a good option as well, but not a necessity..

Enjoy Bora Bora....I'm jealous of that part of the trip a lot

Writing from my beach front villa in Koh Samui (going to SH tomorrow, sadly), I will echo this. Simply thinking about Guangzhou (the food is good enough, but you must admit that it is basically a cesspool) during this current brief period of "moondog bliss" sends shivers up my spine.

Yes, that is exactly the same feeling I got last week looking out my window flying into CAN from BKK. I know exactly what you're talking about.

I still love it though...I'm a dim sum addict and GZ even makes HK look bad when it comes to afternoon tea

stay in nanjing vs. Suzhou?
 

Not to hijack catharsis' thread, but I have a question about my own trip. I was planning on visiting Nanjing as one of day trips from Suzhou. The other day trip will be to Tongli. I planned to stay in Suzhou for 3 nights. After leaving Shanghai, should I go to Nanjing and stay there 3 nights and visit Suzhou and Tongli as as a day trips from Nanjing? Then finish the trip with 3 nights in Hangzhou as planned. I have not made any hotel reservations yet other than for Shanghai, Oct. 15 leaving Oct. 18, at the Royal Meridien w. cash+SPG points. The points have already been deducted from my account.

Is there a direct train Nanjing-Hangzhou, one of the fast ones?

moondog: can you help me get a good rate on an executive room at the Cap Ren Beijing? PM me please.

:( It is indeed bad form to hijack someone else's thread, especially a rather complex one. Yet so easy to start your own which is also very specific in nature. What gives?

Susie knows how to start her own threads, big sis; before long, we might have to create a dedicated forum for her. :)

It makes it difficult for tourist travelers when there is a new
airport opening every week and new rail systems every month.

They need to consolidate all the sights.

Great Wall
T Square
FB City
Terracotta Warriors
Panda Reserve
Lijiang River
Huangshan

Just move them all to Hubei province and start a new SAR.

I think they have the financial resources to do that.

+1. You won't see any of China if you try to cram it all in. Go few and see depth.

Thanks for the info
 

Firstly a huge thanks to everyone for your generosity in answering what must be pretty close to an FAQ by now.

Flight details are: flying into CAN, connecting to PVG on 6th.
Leaving CAN on the late-night CZ direct flight to AKL as mentioned above.

I will pass on the feedback to my SO - I was a little worried that we were being overambitious but it would seem not nearly worried enough.

OK, so cancel CAN - expect to spend the last 3 nights in HK and either fly or train to CAN airport. as suggested by JieJie below

JiuzhaiGou was my proposal, it may be a little hard to persuade my SO to go there if I am telling her we have to cancel Xian & Chengdu. It's an option though, thanks for the suggestion.

I was picking the JW in BJ on a free cat 1-4 promo night which would in any case expire at end Aug so the net cost to me was zero. On the other hand if there is a better cat 1-4 Marriott in Beijing I would be crazy not to listen to advice from those who know better. I can certainly change the free stays to the Ren Capital or the Narriott NE if they are better hotels, as opposed to better value. (and thanks for the input)

Firstly thanks for responding.
Jiejie was 100% right in his(her?) assumptions and I will take the proposed start-game and end-game suggestions as gospel and incorporate them into my plans with thanks.

makes sense
:o - I was thinking literally only a few hours in each of Xian and CTU and those just because my other half wanted so much to see them..... but I guess I should have known better.

thanks for the suggestion to do Shanghai-Xi'an-BJ as opposed to the other way around. I would naturally have done Shanghai, Beijing and then made my way to HK via Xi'an and/or wherever ....
I see the logic of that. I am not sure that I can sell 'herself' on a trip to china that does not include BJ though.

Thanks Jiejie for so many detailed suggestions and precise feedback. Really appreciated.

:o - I'm starting to see a pattern in the responses...
call me sacrilegious but having seen the warriors twice before I'd actually like to skip Xi'an completely
.... Not to start an argument here then , but considering suzie's similar request below also, what is the consensus for a single-day trip by HSR from Shanghai - Nanjing or Suzhou ?(or HZ?)

My own preference given the historical significance would be NJ - but is it too ambitious for a day trip ? How about staying there and flying NJ- PEk??
a useful tip for me or anyone else planning a trip there, thanks
thanks for the useful pointers, I have already started compiling a list of hotel cards and so forth, as well as certain significant metro stations in BJ and SHA.
I'll be sure to post a TR or at least some comments in the IC forum.
I get it - it's actually great that the conclusion here is so overwhelming that we should cut back as it makes it easier for me to work that through with my SO.

In that case, I'm tempted to advise you to cross Marriott NE off of your list, simply because the surrounding neighborhood (Women's Street) is undergoing a facelift at present; it will surely be nice within 2 years, but is now in shambles.

The Cap Ren v. JW is a tougher call. I suppose I would vote for the JW by a hair.

I actually would be a huge push for Jiuzhaigou. Go to the main FAQ webpage for a review if you want more info. IMO, that would be fine even if you had to cut out Xian and Chengdu. You'll get history in Beijing.

But putting up with a SO who didn't get to see what they wanted on a 15 hour flight back to the US, is that worth it? ;)