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HawaiiO Jan 22, 2012 3:49 pm

Woah!
Due to fireworks?


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 17865275)
01-23-2012; 02:00; PM2.5; 972.0; 500; Beyond Index // Ozone; 0.0; 0; No Reading


jiejie Jan 22, 2012 5:52 pm


Originally Posted by HawaiiO (Post 17865701)
Woah!
Due to fireworks?

Probably. I looked out the window between midnight and 1 am, and the sky was extremely cloudy with all the smoke haze from the explosives. I was very close to the US Embassy area last night, and there were heavy explosives going off for hours around there with tons of smoke and particles flying around. So the pollution sensor certainly would have been exposed to that.

moondog Jan 22, 2012 10:48 pm


Originally Posted by HawaiiO (Post 17865701)
Woah!
Due to fireworks?

For sure. The AQI rating started to drop from 3a onward, and got down to 79 by noon (which is remarkably low for BJ). The reason I posted about last night's AQI was that I had never seen a reading that high, but I'd be happy as a clam if bad air was only present between 1 and 4 in the morning on a regular basis.

anacapamalibu Jan 22, 2012 11:02 pm

That must suck to be living in a toxic waste dump created ....duping the Chinese by greedy foreign capatilists.:td:

moondog Jan 22, 2012 11:52 pm


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 17867850)
That must suck to be living in a toxic waste dump created ....duping the Chinese by greedy foreign capatilists.:td:

If Spring Festival lasted all year, this city would be completely livable (go ahead; light off fireworks every single night, and I'd still take it).

The drop off in pollution this week, while partly due to the shift in the weather (Siberian winds), is clearly stems from the drop off in traffic on the roads; 5 million cars = really bad air.

In past years, construction dust, and storms, and factory emissions were also culprits, but these variables have been eliminated for the most part. It is all about the cars!

So, I've been thinking. If driving was incredibly expensive (think Singapore model where you pay a premium to enter the heart of the city during peak times), the quality of life would be much better on the whole. When the subway expansion is complete, it will be possible to go from anywhere to anywhere, which is great, but will entail some insanely long rides. Give us some express trains like Tokyo (e.g. CBD to Wudaokou), and we'll be in good shape. Taxi fares should also be 100% higher than current levels; those guys deserve to make a decent living, and if they could, it would be possible to fetch them without outrunning old ladies.

Shanghai has done a much better job on this front; y40k for a license plate --> far fewer private cars. And, taxis are expensive enough to encourage the use of mass transit for many people.

trueblu Jan 23, 2012 3:02 am

Although still too expensive for most people, and no 'status symbol' cache, the BJ government is trying to encourage electric car use: no need for the lottery to buy an electric car. As I've said before, if I could afford it, and had a charging point in a parking space, I would buy a volt.

tb

anacapamalibu Jan 23, 2012 10:08 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 17868027)
In past years, construction dust, and storms, and factory emissions were also culprits, but these variables have been eliminated for the most part. It is all about the cars!
.

The powers that be need to set an example and at the minimum go
HYBRID.

Also have large enough vehicle for carpooling. :D

moondog Jan 23, 2012 7:19 pm


Originally Posted by trueblu (Post 17868457)
Although still too expensive for most people, and no 'status symbol' cache, the BJ government is trying to encourage electric car use: no need for the lottery to buy an electric car. As I've said before, if I could afford it, and had a charging point in a parking space, I would buy a volt.

tb

While tough emissions laws/incentives may well have worked wonders in Los Angeles, I'm not convinced that similar laws would solve Beijing's problems. Let's say you buy an electric car; sure you'll be emitting no emissions, but you'll still be contributing to the gridlock on third ring, in which a million+ non-electric cars are constantly sitting idle. About a week ago -- when people were still trying to be productive -- I spent a full hour going from Guomao to Chaoyangmen (5 km). I honestly could have made it there on foot and had 20 minutes to spare. Fortunately, Line 6 is on the near horizon, and will reportedly offer express trains!

anacapamalibu Jan 23, 2012 7:58 pm

Quick Fix@:-)

Even-Odd Plates

worked for 08 Olympics
  • two thirds of Beijing's 3.29 million cars were off the road
  • shorter travel times
  • less pollution

trueblu Jan 23, 2012 10:39 pm


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 17874357)
Quick Fix@:-)

Even-Odd Plates

worked for 08 Olympics
  • two thirds of Beijing's 3.29 million cars were off the road
  • shorter travel times
  • less pollution

I'd be up for that if it applied only for peak hours, not evenings. For me, what I really want a car for is popping over to see friends on the other side of town in the evening: now, I dread it until I've secured a cab...and it means that one is invariably early or late depending on when you manage to get a cab.

tb

anacapamalibu Jan 23, 2012 11:28 pm

78,000 cars in Beijing 1978
4.8 million in 2010

One giant parking lot.

mnredfox Jan 24, 2012 4:53 pm


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 17875272)
78,000 cars in Beijing 1978
4.8 million in 2010

One giant parking lot.

Highways sure feel like one, just one with all the cars on with bad stuff coming out the tailpipes that is.

junipermike Jan 26, 2012 6:26 pm

Beijing odd/even license plates
 
My understanding is that driving is still somewhat restricted in Beijing based on whether you have an odd or even license plate.

A supplier I have in BJ told me, however, that he has two cars, one even, one odd, to get around the restriction. So much for trying to control pollution and traffic congestion.

trueblu Jan 26, 2012 8:01 pm


Originally Posted by junipermike (Post 17894492)
My understanding is that driving is still somewhat restricted in Beijing based on whether you have an odd or even license plate.

A supplier I have in BJ told me, however, that he has two cars, one even, one odd, to get around the restriction. So much for trying to control pollution and traffic congestion.

It's days of the week...so on any one (work) day, only about 20% of cars are off the road. A true even/odd system would take 50% of cars off the road, but it would be utterly brutal -- which may be what is actually needed!

tb

moondog Jan 26, 2012 8:28 pm


Originally Posted by junipermike (Post 17894492)
My understanding is that driving is still somewhat restricted in Beijing based on whether you have an odd or even license plate.

A supplier I have in BJ told me, however, that he has two cars, one even, one odd, to get around the restriction. So much for trying to control pollution and traffic congestion.

TMK, the restriction you cite has pretty much been abandoned, in part because of the workaround you mentioned.

The "license plate lottery" is the government's latest defense against the car problem. Every month, 1 in ~12 applicants are given the opportunity to fetch license plates. Naturally, those with 关系 have figured out ways to beat the system, but it has been reasonably effective. That having been said, the Shanghai approach (expensive license plates) is clearly a better solution to the problem at hand.

Worry not; I remain confident that BJ will be a nice place some day; it's basically 30 years behind Tokyo (i.e. give it a chance to catch up), and the guys running the show are not morons.

mnredfox Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm


Originally Posted by trueblu (Post 17894930)
It's days of the week...so on any one (work) day, only about 20% of cars are off the road. A true even/odd system would take 50% of cars off the road, but it would be utterly brutal -- which may be what is actually needed!

tb

Yes, you are only restricted 1-2 days per week.

jiejie Jan 28, 2012 5:58 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 17895031)
Worry not; I remain confident that BJ will be a nice place some day; it's basically 30 years behind Tokyo (i.e. give it a chance to catch up), and the guys running the show are not morons.

You are more optimistic than I. I think BJ will not become a nice place to live again, until it's de-populated by about 1/3 of the present level. That may have to happen at some point anyway, due to outstripping of water supplies, which unlike traffic and pollution, is not talked about here (or much anywhere else publicly), but is probably an even more serious issue.

tauphi Jan 28, 2012 1:45 pm


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 17902833)
You are more optimistic than I. I think BJ will not become a nice place to live again, until it's de-populated by about 1/3 of the present level. That may have to happen at some point anyway, due to outstripping of water supplies, which unlike traffic and pollution, is not talked about here (or much anywhere else publicly), but is probably an even more serious issue.

By then I'm sure they'll be rich enough to afford desalinated water. If not then they'll have to drink recycled water :p

anacapamalibu Jan 28, 2012 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 17902833)
You are more optimistic than I. I think BJ will not become a nice place to live again, until it's de-populated by about 1/3 of the present level. That may have to happen at some point anyway, due to outstripping of water supplies, which unlike traffic and pollution, is not talked about here (or much anywhere else publicly), but is probably an even more serious issue.

China Daily January 5th 2012

WATER SHORTAGE IN BEIJING SEVERE

moondog Jan 28, 2012 7:35 pm


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 17902833)
You are more optimistic than I. I think BJ will not become a nice place to live again, until it's de-populated by about 1/3 of the present level. That may have to happen at some point anyway, due to outstripping of water supplies, which unlike traffic and pollution, is not talked about here (or much anywhere else publicly), but is probably an even more serious issue.

It's all about the upcoming urban sprawl. While this won't solve the water problem, it is bound to spread people out.

mosburger Jan 29, 2012 2:30 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 17874138)
While tough emissions laws/incentives may well have worked wonders in Los Angeles, I'm not convinced that similar laws would solve Beijing's problems.

Especially as local authorities are forging industry emission figures to protect state owned companies and private tycoons with good guangxi.

I know of a few cases where there is very convincing proof of a certain kind that emission figures recorded by local laboratories where later changed to keep them within allowed levels.

anacapamalibu Jan 29, 2012 7:44 am


Originally Posted by mosburger (Post 17907571)
Especially as local authorities are forging industry emission figures to protect state owned companies and private tycoons with good guangxi.

I know of a few cases where there is very convincing proof of a certain kind that emission figures recorded by local laboratories where later changed to keep them within allowed levels.

That's not suprising.
No big fine or jail if caught falsifying emissions reports.


http://china-wire.org/?p=17278

HawaiiO May 2, 2012 12:11 am

Is pollution bad today in PEK?
I was looking at the AQI index and it was 160+...

Anyone knows of a webcam for PEK?
The only webcam i could find showed a grey landscape scene in the afternoon so I'm not exactly sure it was accurate.

Edit:
hmm, looking through the US Embassy AQI, it seems that some days are pretty good, as in sub-50.
But, May 1 was 300+ at noon!
That is just ridiculous.

Shimon May 2, 2012 12:45 am

Beijing needs a better subway.

Shimon May 2, 2012 12:51 am


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 17874357)
Quick Fix@:-)

Even-Odd Plates

worked for 08 Olympics
  • two thirds of Beijing's 3.29 million cars were off the road
  • shorter travel times
  • less pollution

Better solution. Even number plates in the morning. Odd number plates in the afternoon. Few hours of both. Switched daily. It will stop people from doing their daily commute with cars.

moondog May 2, 2012 1:15 am


Originally Posted by HawaiiO (Post 18497337)
Is pollution bad today in PEK?
I was looking at the AQI index and it was 160+...

Anyone knows of a webcam for PEK?
The only webcam i could find showed a grey landscape scene in the afternoon so I'm not exactly sure it was accurate.

Edit:
hmm, looking through the US Embassy AQI, it seems that some days are pretty good, as in sub-50.
But, May 1 was 300+ at noon!
That is just ridiculous.

Today isn't so bad, and neither was yesterday.

fimo May 2, 2012 2:04 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 18497488)
Today isn't so bad, and neither was yesterday.

Yeah, today & yesterday are an improvement over the first 2 days of the long wkend. Even those who drove out to the countryside said the air was bad.

I can see out my 18F office window quite a distance, which is a good sign. Not clear blue skies but I'm happy to take anything below 200. :eek:

Skillet May 2, 2012 7:12 am


Originally Posted by Shimon (Post 18497415)
Beijing needs a better subway.

Better in what way? How is it falling short of reasonable expectations?

It has enormous scope, is continuing to expand through the foreseeable future, is cheap as dirt and has a good safety record in comparison to say London or Boston. Moreover, it is air-conditioned and has decent mobile phone reception.

Try an articulated bus with wooden floors choking diesel fumes and so crowded you can't breath those fumes anyway.:p

moondog May 2, 2012 8:08 am


Originally Posted by Skillet (Post 18498640)
Better in what way? How is it falling short of reasonable expectations?

It has enormous scope, is continuing to expand through the foreseeable future, is cheap as dirt and has a good safety record in comparison to say London or Boston. Moreover, it is air-conditioned and has decent mobile phone reception.

Try an articulated bus with wooden floors choking diesel fumes and so crowded you can't breath those fumes anyway.:p

+1

In spite of the annoyingly long transfers, Beijing's subway network is pretty damn impressive. Furthermore, Big Brother has mandated that all points within 4th Ring (a massive area... think Rhode Island) will be within 15 minutes walking distance of a subway station by 2020. To the best of my knowledge, no other city in the entire world can boast such, or has aspirations of doing so. Oh, and it will get built.

That having been said, we really need Tokyo style express trains (i.e. if they really care about Financial Street, it should be possible to get there from the CBD in 15 minutes, as opposed to 40 minutes). Many of us are looking forward to Line 6 because it will offer express trains. (I recently relocated to a building that has indoor access to a major Line 6 station, and can already envision a repeat of the Shuangjing success story.)

The bottom line is that everyone knows that the air pollution and the traffic are Beijing's two biggest drawbacks; subway expansion = 两鸟一石.

taipeipeter May 10, 2012 10:48 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 18499016)
...Furthermore, Big Brother has mandated that all points within 4th Ring (a massive area... think Rhode Island) will be within 15 minutes walking distance of a subway station by 2020. To the best of my knowledge, no other city in the entire world can boast such, or has aspirations of doing so. Oh, and it will get built.

Paris, though not as massive.

HawaiiO May 15, 2012 6:04 pm

US embassy has started posting their numbers for Shanghai.
Similar to what they are doing for Beijing.

http://twitter.com/#!/cgshanghaiair

anacapamalibu Jun 5, 2012 9:46 pm

A senior Chinese official demanded on Tuesday that foreign embassies stop issuing air pollution readings, saying it was against the law.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85408S20120606

moondog Jun 6, 2012 9:27 am


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 18705587)
A senior Chinese official demanded on Tuesday that foreign embassies stop issuing air pollution readings, saying it was against the law.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85408S20120606

So, is the China Daily reporter who plugged the US Embassy Twitter account in for any sort of trouble?

trueblu Jun 6, 2012 9:44 am

I think the reason, at least partly, for the recent upswing in official resentment is that for some time, having the feed on twitter kept it away from the vast majority of chinese. But very recently, many, many apps have popped up that basically give the embassy information without need for a vpn.

No longer is it expats and a handful of rich chinese getting the info...hence trouble.

tb

jiejie Jun 6, 2012 11:43 am

Well, the USA could be neighborly and offer to pay for putting up a similar pollution monitor at the Chinese Embassy in Washington, DC. :D

swy Jun 10, 2012 7:51 pm


Originally Posted by trueblu (Post 18708222)
I think the reason, at least partly, for the recent upswing in official resentment is that for some time, having the feed on twitter kept it away from the vast majority of chinese. But very recently, many, many apps have popped up that basically give the embassy information without need for a vpn.

No longer is it expats and a handful of rich chinese getting the info...hence trouble.

tb

what are some of the apps that you are referring to? Just curious...

trueblu Jun 10, 2012 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by swy (Post 18733603)
what are some of the apps that you are referring to? Just curious...

Just type "beijing air" into google play/ itunes and there are several options that pop up. Not sure if they come up outside of china (not sure of your location).

tb

Shimon Jun 10, 2012 10:30 pm

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Met...2Bto%2Bforget/

"Its air quality index made it the dirtiest city in the country over the weekend because of straw burning, an agricultural practice that is banned in Shanghai."

I saw straw burning on my way from Pudong airport to the city just a few days ago.

swy Jun 11, 2012 12:12 am


Originally Posted by trueblu (Post 18733700)
Just type "beijing air" into google play/ itunes and there are several options that pop up. Not sure if they come up outside of china (not sure of your location).

tb

thanks! Looks like more work for the staff of the Great Firewall.

g46r Jun 13, 2012 12:15 am

this is happening right now. I am going to pack a few N95 respirators since I heading there this Friday.

http://news.google.com/news/story?cf...za9nDvTMl2HJjM

http://news.google.com/news/story?hl...ed=0CDgQqgIwAA


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