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Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)

Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)

Old Feb 28, 2013, 2:47 am
  #901  
 
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Originally Posted by SkyTeam777
I noticed it on my hotel bill at the Shangri-La Delhi, but the US dollar amount appeared to convert fairly to the rupee charge. Am I missing something or was this just a good example of a fair exchange rate? I'm so glad to learn about this practice as I assumed choosing USD saved me from a worse bank exchange rate.
Usually, DCC is usually always worse than letting the bill be run through in the local currency. However, if you have a credit card with very bad exchange rates for foreign transactions (I know some Swiss CC who use bad exchange rates and then slap 2.5% onto them as well!) then actually using DCC might not be that much worse, or in some rare circumstances, even be a bit beneficial to you.

Especially if you are travelling for business, and your company does use a very bad internal exchange rate, so that your refunds are less than what you paid with Non-DCC, it might make sense to use DCC even if you pay slightly more to tell them you spent 1200$ using DCC, and you want 1200$ back, and not that you spend 10.000 RMB which cost you 1190$ by using Non-DCC, but they only give you 1180$ back as their internal exchange rate would convert 10.000 RMB to..

I think that's also mainly what DCC should be for - helping companies running foreign transactions for their employees. Now, if they would allow you a fair chance to actually use DCC or local currency, and not give you a hard time to choose yourself, I'm sure this whole topic won't exist..
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 3:10 am
  #902  
 
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer
Usually, DCC is usually always worse than letting the bill be run through in the local currency. However, if you have a credit card with very bad exchange rates for foreign transactions (I know some Swiss CC who use bad exchange rates and then slap 2.5% onto them as well!) then actually using DCC might not be that much worse, or in some rare circumstances, even be a bit beneficial to you.
Another case where DCC might end up saving you money is where the exchange rate is very volatile. Since DCC/non-DCC use rates on different days (day of transaction vs. day of posting) this may make a big difference.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 4:43 am
  #903  
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer
Usually, DCC is usually always worse than letting the bill be run through in the local currency. However, if you have a credit card with very bad exchange rates for foreign transactions (I know some Swiss CC who use bad exchange rates and then slap 2.5% onto them as well!)
My cards that slap on those fx fees only care about the fact that the transaction took place outside of the US (i.e. they still hit me with it even when I'm billed in USD). IIRC, they don't call it an fx fee, but something broader like foreign country txn fee. Obviously, since I dislike both DCC and fx fees, I try to avoid both, so I don't have a great deal of data to work with... apart from a handful of transactions and a chat with a Citi CSR.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 5:21 am
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Originally Posted by SkyTeam777
I noticed it on my hotel bill at the Shangri-La Delhi, but the US dollar amount appeared to convert fairly to the rupee charge. Am I missing something or was this just a good example of a fair exchange rate? I'm so glad to learn about this practice as I assumed choosing USD saved me from a worse bank exchange rate.
Nothing in DCC really stop a merchant being alturistic and offering better exchange rates to travellers.

It's somewhat like my holiday in Bintan a few years back when I noticed one hotel (Bintan Lagoon) converting menu prices of USD (as is the custom in Bintan tourist hotels) into IDR for credit card charging @ 9,600 (I think!) whereas Angsana, Banyan Tree and other resorts all seem to want 9,800 - an understated discount

(this is not exactly DCC - by Indonesian law an Indonesian merchant cannot charge anything but IDR - in fact on visits to both Bintan and Bali last year I've not encountered DCC anywhere in either Indonesian location. But I never really learnt how to get the hotel prevailing exchange rate before I order food and spas in Bintan).

However most merchants outside of Bintan Lagoon (and Shangri-La Delhi) rather fleece their customers when they're not looking rather than rewarding them.

Last edited by percysmith; Feb 28, 2013 at 8:08 am
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:38 am
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Originally Posted by percysmith
When did we mention interest rate? Suppose you mean exchange rate.

I'm glad you have some compliant transactions. I and some others here have not been so lucky.

Why should the title be changed? The title is suitable for a thread talking about DCC in China as a scam.

I think it's fair to cover Greater China, since we get the same banks and non-compliant firmware (e.g. BoC) in HK and Macau and (e.g. HSBC/Global Payments) in Taiwan.

If we brought in DCC in other countries then it is merely to compare DCC experiences in other jurisdictions. I didn't include my full Harrods story here, I posted it over in the UK forum then included a link to it here.
Of course I meant exchange rate.
Btw who is the "we" that you refer to in your opening reply ?

And you mean to say that ONLY DCC DONE IN CHINA ARE SCAMS ? - really ?
Why's that ? Because they don't explain to you in English what DCC means ?
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:45 am
  #906  
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Originally Posted by bearbrick
Of course I meant exchange rate.
Btw who is the "we" that you refer to in your opening reply ?

And you mean to say that ONLY DCC DONE IN CHINA ARE SCAMS ? - really ?
Why's that ? Because they don't explain to you in English what DCC means ?
About 10 of us have participated in this thread since its early days, and our views/practices have converged over time.

As for the part about China, this is the China forum, and we started talking about DCC because the practice (i.e. no opt out DCC) is ubiquitous here. The language issue is a moot point because the merchants would have to know of the existence of DCC in order to explain it (most have no clue whatsoever, which is exactly what the banks desire).
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 12:37 pm
  #907  
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Well I was thinking more about cases like SkyTeam777 on top of this page who compared the Chinese DCC situation with his experience in Delhi.

But DCC in China is really in a class of its own. Yes DCC happens outside China - Avis Preferred, Harrods, Lotte Duty Free http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 23#.

But (at least speaking for me) I never encountered a jurisdiction where DCC is more endemic than China. And non-compliant DCC at that. I can card for days and days in UK and Thailand before I encounter a DCC terminal and normally I can get out of it. In China it's already getting a little difficult to find someone to take someting that's not Unionpay and much harder to get out of DCC.

And you have no other jurisdiction where the state a. hates Visa Inc. b. runs the banks and c. indirectly owns a competing payment network. I know I cannot directly link the state government to DCC but it's hard to find a environment where non-compliant DCC is more likely to fester.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 2:53 pm
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Originally Posted by moondog
About 10 of us have participated in this thread since its early days, and our views/practices have converged over time.

As for the part about China, this is the China forum, and we started talking about DCC because the practice (i.e. no opt out DCC) is ubiquitous here. The language issue is a moot point because the merchants would have to know of the existence of DCC in order to explain it (most have no clue whatsoever, which is exactly what the banks desire).
10 out of the many different respondents is hardly a "we" . in any case, it was a mistake on on my part re exchange / interest rate , so irrelevant , really.

Yes it's a china forum but to say its a scam and in china seem to say , not even suggest that this is an exclusive practice within / to china and scamming at that .
Ubiquitous does not a scam make.

My recent DCC transactions in Germany ,UK and France took several vendors ( and there were many vendors who seem to use this now ) by surprise , at least it appeared so , they just pointed out which currency ild like. I am wondering if these vendors would have any clue as to what this entails too. Though i may add that both german & french , not my strong point .Well maybe next time.

Last edited by bearbrick; Feb 28, 2013 at 3:03 pm
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 2:58 pm
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Originally Posted by percysmith
Well I was thinking more about cases like SkyTeam777 on top of this page who compared the Chinese DCC situation with his experience in Delhi.

But DCC in China is really in a class of its own. Yes DCC happens outside China - Avis Preferred, Harrods, Lotte Duty Free http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 23#.

But (at least speaking for me) I never encountered a jurisdiction where DCC is more endemic than China. And non-compliant DCC at that. I can card for days and days in UK and Thailand before I encounter a DCC terminal and normally I can get out of it. In China it's already getting a little difficult to find someone to take someting that's not Unionpay and much harder to get out of DCC.

And you have no other jurisdiction where the state a. hates Visa Inc. b. runs the banks and c. indirectly owns a competing payment network. I know I cannot directly link the state government to DCC but it's hard to find a environment where non-compliant DCC is more likely to fester.
We can agree that DCC is not solely practiced in China .
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 4:33 pm
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Originally Posted by bearbrick
Well I guess the OP isn't that well travelled ...to only mention China as the country with this practice.

MODERATOR , PLS LOOK INTO THIS . THKS
Originally Posted by AA_EXP09
Nope, though this is the China forum and that's where the practice is most widespread.
I've had this in France and Spain too-almost anywhere to think of it.
I did NOT say that it only happened in China-especially if you look at my quotation underneath, and especially at the bolded part.
Oh, and by the way, if you ever meet me, I can show you my passports.
I've had it happen elsewhere too-Malaysia, SIN, UK, even the USA when renting a car.
Maybe you should edit your own post before attacking mine?
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 4:37 pm
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Originally Posted by bearbrick
We can agree that DCC is not solely practiced in China .
Yes, I can.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:47 pm
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Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)

So according to the post, Amex is not affected by dcc? But it already has not so good rate and oversea charges...
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 12:13 am
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Originally Posted by yucci18
So according to the post, Amex is not affected by dcc? But it already has not so good rate and oversea charges...
From what I heard from the regulars like percysmith, being DCCed is more expensive than the Amex exchange rates.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by AA_EXP09
I did NOT say that it only happened in China-especially if you look at my quotation underneath, and especially at the bolded part.
Oh, and by the way, if you ever meet me, I can show you my passports.
I've had it happen elsewhere too-Malaysia, SIN, UK, even the USA when renting a car.
Maybe you should edit your own post before attacking mine?
In my reply and quoting your reply , I was referring to the OP , original post , and not your posting , which gave me the impression that China was the only country which had this DCC practice.
In fact that post (op) did confuse me somewhat because I had already experienced DCC in other countries outside China .

As in my other posts , being a widespread practice is different from being solely and uniquely practiced. That has always been the premise of my postings.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by yucci18
So according to the post, Amex is not affected by dcc? But it already has not so good rate and oversea charges...
Exactly , perhaps , according to some of the replies , AMEX is a card that is favoured by the "STATE" .
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