iahphx

Thanks!

I have no doubt that being "gweilo" would almost always result in a higher initial price for just about everything in China.

On the other hand, I've heard complaints from Chinese-Americans that they are not treated as well as gweilos in the fancy hotels and such. So pluses and minuses.

Chinatrvl

Stumbled over them, they look very cheap (for an English website, considering Shanghai companies want 180USD++) - you could even hire a 7-seater for 540 RMB.

http://www.suzhoucarrent.com/AirportTransfor.asp

iahphx

Thanks. I agree -- those prices look reasonable for a pre-booking with an English-speaking agency. I've sent them an email seeking a firm quote.

By chance, has anyone actually used them? The only publicity I see on the web is that "Stars Car Hire Service is a company set up by an Australian to mainly cater for expatriates or tourists seeking an english speaking booking or contact and a professional car hire service with clean cars and courteous drivers."

Sounds decent enough.

HotelSlave

Oh yes please get a car and a driver. You do not want to drag your bags and luggage wondering around dt Shanghai with newly exchanged money falling out of your wallets, especially if you don't speak the language. And don't forget the potential pick-pockets.

A train ride would be nice and fast and indeed economic, but beware that the station at Suzhou is...well, going to be quite an experience, again, it would be even less advisable when travelling with huge luggage.

Taxi from Suzhou station are notorious for overcharging people, they either don't go by the metre, or use "super metres". Things can get worse if you look foreign or even just don't have the local accent.

Arrange for a car rental company to pick you up at the airport and drive you to your hotel in Suzhou. You sometimes you have to negotiate the price right and be clear if you or the driver is going to pay for the tolls. Don't try to drive yourself (unless you are Chinese it's almost impossible for you to drive a rental car). I think with a hired car/van+driver from PVG straight to your hotel should probably cost no more than US$140 o/w, tolls and tips inclusive.

You can contact your hotel and see if they can give you a better deal.

If you travel by car/bus/van/taxi from PVG to Suzhou, allow for about ~2h to 2.5h of travel time for off-peak hours, rush hour traffic adds about 30~45m to the journey time.

iahphx

Your assessment of visiting travellers is more than a bit overstated. I've used public transport in Shanghai and Suzhou before without any significant difficulty, and I don't speak any Chinese. I did not their train stations to be particularly daunting or unpleasant, at least by Chinese standards. If taking a taxi in either city it would, obviously, be smart to have your destination written out in Chinese before getting in. I find it very rare to be overcharged in China for a cab -- I think it's more likely to happen in the USA!

But, like anywhere, "1 seat" transport can be a lot easier than taking a taxi, switching to a train, and then grabbing another taxi. As noted above, there are car services offering PVG-Suzhou transport for about $55, and at that price it seems silly for 2 or more travellers to do anything else.

mnredfox

If you are clueless when it comes to travel (i.e. get sucked into the hawkers at the train stations), are easily intimidated by foreign places, don't know how to not flash cash around, and are a helpless American with 10 bags, take a cab/private car. (sorry to stereotype here, but it's the best way to get a point across)

If you know a few things about international travel, travel light, and don't mind figuring things out, then take the train (DongChe) from the Shanghai Railway station. Fast, convenient, comfortable. I agree with the previous poster, it really is not that difficult to get to Suzhou taking the train, and a cheap first class ticket is quite comfortable. Ticket machines all have English.

FLLDL

Strange condescending tone in some of these posts.

The OP stated that they are traveling with 4 people and are presumably coming off of a TPAC flight. Train would involve waiting for taxis (probably need 2 taxis for 4 people + bags), taking taxis from PVG to train station, buy tickets, wait in the holding area, haul themselves + luggage through tunnels/stairs to the platform, wait at platform, ride train, haul themselves + luggage through tunnels / stairs out of the Suzhou station, waiting for taxis, take taxis to hotel.

Private car = door to door service with none of the transactional delays above and no hassle of lugging bags up and down stairs in crowded train stations after 12+ hrs of flying. Bus would be similarly convenient, though it would add a cab ride on arrival in Suzhou.

Has nothing to do with being "clueless when it comes to travel", just a matter of choosing the best mode of transportation for the situation.

mnredfox

My comments were not meant to be condescending, if so my apologies. I just meant to generalize the two ends of spectrum of travelers. There are those that (even in groups of 4+) travel light, don't mind navigating strange places, and figuring their way to get from point A to B via multiple modes of transportation.

Then there is the other camp (who I call the cruise vacationers) who arrive with 3 big checked bags each, expect everything to be in English or speak English, start yelling at the locals because they are tired and just flew TPAC and can't figure out how to get to where they want to, or just in general make a big fuss because something went wrong (it's China, something always happens). And of course everyone in between.

I was just simply trying to state think about which camp you lean more towards and consider your options then. If you are in the former camp, then I say no worries with a little prep you'll be 100% fine. If you're in the latter, go with the car buying option.

In general, I think too many people fear the unknown of China and unfairly paint China in a picture of backwards, impossible place to navigate, unclean and totally unhygienic where you'll get sick, etc. It's just simply not true.

moondog

Agreed. In many respects, China is actually easier to navigate than the US. But, planning things down to the minute is often difficult (especially months in advance) and usually unnecessary.

I'm a big supporter of the PEK-SHA/HKG open jaw with two hotel nights on either end booked and a wide open middle. Connecting the dots is half the fun.

Jamoldo

+1

iahphx

Yeah, pluses and minuses to planning ahead in China. Overall, though, I would say the internet makes advance-planning more advantageous.

Example: From this thread, I've been able to find an English-speaking taxi operator to take me from PVG to Suzhou at a fair price. It sure beats trying to negotiate at the airport.

I'm also finding more advantages to booking hotels in advance -- at least fancier ones. You just get better prices: like with the periodic Accor sales. The old idea that you can get a better rate bargaining at the front desk simply does not work at these nicer properties. And, somewhat to my surprise, hotels can now sell out in China! In Yunnan province, I was thinking of switching hotels for next month (and also seeing if I could find lower prices!) and I've seen a couple of instances where the cheaper rooms are already sold out.

You can also sometimes find English speaking tour guides (if you want them) in various forums at fair prices. If you want a guide, arranging a recommend one at a fair price is often a better option that hoping to find a good guide "on the street."

Sometimes you can get tickets cheaper if you plan ahead. I like taking my kids to Circus World in Shanghai to see the acrobats. Most of their seats start at 180 RMB, but you can snag 80 RMB tickets (almost as good) if you buy in advance.

Airfares are now sometimes cheaper 20 or 30 days out than at the last minute.

And so on. Spontaneity is good and bad. It's good to leave leeway in your plans and change them if you want more or less time somewhere. It's bad when you waste vacation time trying to make arrangements and wind up getting worse service for more money.

fsfguy

I agree, there are advantages to booking in advance, and you can't depend on last minute hotel availability as much as you used to and there are more advance air discounts than there used to be. I also like moondog's flexible approach. To reconcile the two, I usually book things that can be changed or canceled and change them when the mood strikes me. I also leave portions open so, I get a mix from both pricing and experience perspectives. I also like to book some portions in advance or sometimes take an easier road to reduce the amount of vacation time used for planning logistics. I look at it as a balance between time, money, flexibility and effort, each facet getting more or less emphasis depending on how I feel at the time. So, I think there's room for each approach as well as something in between.

mnredfox

I fully agree with the book in advance principle, however keep in mind China is relatively flexible and as long as you don't mind not having 5 star accommodations or Western brand hotels, there are lots of hotels you can walk up to and negotiate away. Only exception is probably Shanghai right now which is quite full everywhere.

I've done this plenty of times and found comfortable, clean, and safe hotels (including breakfast) for maybe $20-30 USD/night.

Loren Pechtel

Yeah, in our travels around China we have fared better picking our hotel in person. She always goes and looks at the room before deciding if we are going to stay there. She's always been less happy with the situation when we booked ahead.

mnredfox

Agree. I should have said this earlier, but in China it's always common to look at the room first (maybe because of the varying levels of quality to rooms). I always suggest these walk in places to inspect first so you know what you're getting into (or what kind of wicked deal you're getting). Again, most places like this typically include breakfast too which will likely be a Chinese breakfast.