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Banking and Good banks in the PRC Discussion

Old May 18, 2019, 4:15 am
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Last edit by: Deltus
As of May 2019, this thread is closing in on its 9 year anniversary. A lot has changed during the course of the past 9 years. In particular: 1. WeChat Wallet and Alipay have risen to prominence, and 2. banking related security measures have become much more intense. #2 is especially relevant to foreigners in China because many --if not most-- banks are reluctant to open accounts for people on standard tourist or business visas.

The objective of this thread is to help people navigate these waters. Please feel free to add your own data points to the Google Sheet in the following link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lBOLufpsS_YypVd4Yv75aDVNLK2K0t8GHtbV7-O9Hqw/edit?usp=sharing

For an account of using HSBC Premier in China, see post 188.
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Banking and Good banks in the PRC Discussion

Old Jun 23, 2018, 9:39 am
  #106  
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Originally Posted by RedSun
This is something worth looking into.
Another nice feature about Schwab is the $1000 per day daily withdrawal limit that can be raised (as high as you want it (though I've always been loath to go too high) for 24 hour periods with a quick phone call. While this might seem like a trivial matter, ICBC and CMB CDMs are surprisingly inconveniently located in Beijing and Shanghai, so I try to keep my visits to a minimum.

ETA: "Surprisingly" was poor word choice because CDMs do suck up a lot more real estate than plain vanilla ATMs.

Last edited by moondog; Jun 23, 2018 at 9:46 am
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Old Jun 23, 2018, 9:46 am
  #107  
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Originally Posted by moondog
Another nice feature about Schwab is the $1000 per day daily withdrawal limit that can be raised (as high as you want it (though I've always been loath to go too high) for 24 hour periods with a quick phone call. While this might seem like a trivial matter, ICBC and CMB CDMs are surprisingly inconveniently located in Beijing and Shanghai, so I try to keep my visits to a minimum.
So you can use any ATM with Visa logo in China to get RMB out? Then the US $ is taken out from your Schwab checking, no ATM fees both sides and no foreign transaction fees?

My BofA account has no ATM fees and gives unlimited ATM fee refunds from other bank. But it is only is US, not worldwide.
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Old Jun 23, 2018, 4:10 pm
  #108  
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"So you can use any ATM with Visa logo in China to get RMB out? Then the US $ is taken out from your Schwab checking, no ATM fees both sides and no foreign transaction fees?"

Yes, no added fees by the banks on either side, though there is a Visa network charge built into the exchange rate. Also, if you're in a country like Thailand where the local banks do add an ATM fee, Schwab will refund it.

Note some cautions with Schwab:

-- They are first and foremost a broker, and offer checking accounts as an adjunct to their brokerage business. If you just want to open a small checking account to take advantage of their no-fee ATM cards, they may not be eager to serve you. They expect to make money from you as a brokerage customer. And if you do a Google search, you'll see some complaints indicating Schwab does from time to time close accounts when their activity doesn't meet Schwab's business model.

-- Given that the securities business is highly regulated, as a broker they seem very sensitive to accounts with a lot of non-U.S. activity. Using a VPN when checking your Schwab account and not using foreign ATMs too frequently would be a cautious approach. Or you can open a Schwab international account in Hong Kong.
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Old Jun 23, 2018, 9:03 pm
  #109  
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Withdrawal (CNY) 2,000.00Withdrawal (USD) $ 308.08Effective FX6.49182031Bloomberg FX6.5052Differential0.98662031
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 6:42 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog
Another nice feature about Schwab is the $1000 per day daily withdrawal limit that can be raised.....
This is a pretty low limit.
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 8:06 am
  #111  
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Originally Posted by JPDM
This is a pretty low limit.
For ATM, $1,000 is decent limit. Schwab is not the traditional bank like Citi, Chase and BofA that you can walk into a branch and take out $10,000 in cash.
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 8:12 am
  #112  
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Originally Posted by JPDM
This is a pretty low limit.
Since the annual limit for inbound USD is 50k, I felt 10k was a sensible stopgap.

@889 Thank you for indirectly getting me to crunch the Schwab numbers. Do you know of any banks that can undercut their 100 basis points by a significant margin?
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 9:12 am
  #113  
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I was very surprised at your calculation: I thought Visa incorporated a network fee of about 0.75 percent of the wholesale rate.

What is amazing is how difficult it is to determine just what Visa does charge.

Actually, not so amazing.
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 8:10 pm
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Originally Posted by 889
I was very surprised at your calculation: I thought Visa incorporated a network fee of about 0.75 percent of the wholesale rate.

What is amazing is how difficult it is to determine just what Visa does charge.

Actually, not so amazing.
This is what Visa charges: https://usa.visa.com/support/consume...lculator.html/
Your bank may add to this, usually 2-3%
Chinese banks have no ATM fees so the Schwab deal is not so special.
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Old Jun 24, 2018, 9:42 pm
  #115  
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Let's see, then. Based on the Visa rate posted for yesterday, June 24, and today's Bank of China rates, US$100 will get you the following:

649.84 RMB (ATM/Visa)
651.97 RMB (TT/BOC)
646.67 RMB (Cash/BOC)

That is, the Visa rate is about 0.33 percent worse than the TT rate, and about 0.49 percent better than the cash rate. (Of course the posted TT rate doesn't include bank charges that usually accompany TTs.)
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 4:11 am
  #116  
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@JPDM: Schwab is willing to clear your entire $50k annual allotment in a single day....but, do you really want this?
@889: I appreciate your suggestions of accounts that charge less than 100 basis points for the transfer
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 1:03 pm
  #117  
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One thing I'm thinking is that, even some ATMs do not charge the ATM fees, but there can be some bid differences on the exchange rates each bank uses. Anything we should know? I see some discussion above, but I'd like to know of some summary. On what to look out for.
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 1:16 pm
  #118  
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I believe it's normally the network that sets the rate. However, if you use a Citibank ATM to withdraw from a Citibank account in another country, Citibank seems to set its own rate. Sometimes not so good: it seems haphazard, even within the same country.
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 6:58 pm
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Originally Posted by RedSun
One thing I'm thinking is that, even some ATMs do not charge the ATM fees, but there can be some bid differences on the exchange rates each bank uses. Anything we should know? I see some discussion above, but I'd like to know of some summary. On what to look out for.
Banks don't set the exchange rate. It is set by the "clearing house" such as Visa. Then the bank adds a markup, 0 to 3%.
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 2:31 pm
  #120  
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Opened Schwab investment and bank accounts. Just another tool handy.
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