May 18, 2019, 4:15 am
Last edit by: Deltus
As of May 2019, this thread is closing in on its 9 year anniversary. A lot has changed during the course of the past 9 years. In particular: 1. WeChat Wallet and Alipay have risen to prominence, and 2. banking related security measures have become much more intense. #2 is especially relevant to foreigners in China because many --if not most-- banks are reluctant to open accounts for people on standard tourist or business visas.
The objective of this thread is to help people navigate these waters. Please feel free to add your own data points to the Google Sheet in the following link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lBOLufpsS_YypVd4Yv75aDVNLK2K0t8GHtbV7-O9Hqw/edit?usp=sharing
For an account of using HSBC Premier in China, see post 188.
The objective of this thread is to help people navigate these waters. Please feel free to add your own data points to the Google Sheet in the following link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lBOLufpsS_YypVd4Yv75aDVNLK2K0t8GHtbV7-O9Hqw/edit?usp=sharing
For an account of using HSBC Premier in China, see post 188.
Banking and Good banks in the PRC Discussion
Jul 2, 2018, 5:35 pm
#121
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
"Banks don't set the exchange rate. It is set by the 'clearing house' such as Visa. Then the bank adds a markup, 0 to 3%."
This is why the bank markup on foreign card transactions is unconscionable: the bank does absolutely nothing to earn that additional fee. It's the network that handles everything foreign in return for its add-on to the exchange rate. The charge comes into the bank from the network as a US dollar charge, just like domestic card transactions. Except that there's a marker in some field that indicates the transaction occured overseas along with the local currency amount, and the bank uses that as justification to tack on an unjustifiable fee.
This is why the bank markup on foreign card transactions is unconscionable: the bank does absolutely nothing to earn that additional fee. It's the network that handles everything foreign in return for its add-on to the exchange rate. The charge comes into the bank from the network as a US dollar charge, just like domestic card transactions. Except that there's a marker in some field that indicates the transaction occured overseas along with the local currency amount, and the bank uses that as justification to tack on an unjustifiable fee.
Sep 3, 2018, 12:18 pm
#122
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
I just got back from China, mainly in Shanghai. Even with the global reach, China banking is still pretty on its own.
Quite a few banks do local banking in Shanghai, particularly HSBC, Standard Chartered and maybe Citi too. But to have truly global banking, you'll need to be its global banking customer. The deposit requirement is like $50,000 or so to waive the monthly service fees. Then in HSBC's case, you get both main bank (US or Europe) and China local accounts. You can then transfer western $$ into Chinese account without any fees.
We opened local account at ICBC since that is what our local institution offers and its branch is just one city block away. It does not charge ATM fee and there is no local inter-bank transfer fee (even from another person). If we need more CNY, local friends can just tranfer CNY to the local account. Then we figure out other way to pay back friends. Definitely there is fee to transfer (wire) $$ to Chinese bank.
We do have the Schwab ATM card for backup purposes. The ICBA ATM does accept VISA ATM card. So I assume Schwab ATM card should work. There is no ATM fee, but the CNY-USD exchange rate is unknown. Not sure if we'll ever use it.
It is a lot good info from FT, from folks like moondog. There are still things to explore.
Quite a few banks do local banking in Shanghai, particularly HSBC, Standard Chartered and maybe Citi too. But to have truly global banking, you'll need to be its global banking customer. The deposit requirement is like $50,000 or so to waive the monthly service fees. Then in HSBC's case, you get both main bank (US or Europe) and China local accounts. You can then transfer western $$ into Chinese account without any fees.
We opened local account at ICBC since that is what our local institution offers and its branch is just one city block away. It does not charge ATM fee and there is no local inter-bank transfer fee (even from another person). If we need more CNY, local friends can just tranfer CNY to the local account. Then we figure out other way to pay back friends. Definitely there is fee to transfer (wire) $$ to Chinese bank.
We do have the Schwab ATM card for backup purposes. The ICBA ATM does accept VISA ATM card. So I assume Schwab ATM card should work. There is no ATM fee, but the CNY-USD exchange rate is unknown. Not sure if we'll ever use it.
It is a lot good info from FT, from folks like moondog. There are still things to explore.
Sep 4, 2018, 7:55 am
#123
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: China and Canada
Posts: 1,886
"Banks don't set the exchange rate. It is set by the 'clearing house' such as Visa. Then the bank adds a markup, 0 to 3%."
This is why the bank markup on foreign card transactions is unconscionable: the bank does absolutely nothing to earn that additional fee. It's the network that handles everything foreign in return for its add-on to the exchange rate. The charge comes into the bank from the network as a US dollar charge, just like domestic card transactions. Except that there's a marker in some field that indicates the transaction occured overseas along with the local currency amount, and the bank uses that as justification to tack on an unjustifiable fee.
This is why the bank markup on foreign card transactions is unconscionable: the bank does absolutely nothing to earn that additional fee. It's the network that handles everything foreign in return for its add-on to the exchange rate. The charge comes into the bank from the network as a US dollar charge, just like domestic card transactions. Except that there's a marker in some field that indicates the transaction occured overseas along with the local currency amount, and the bank uses that as justification to tack on an unjustifiable fee.
Sep 4, 2018, 8:13 am
#124
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
You're missing the point.
Your bank -- which might freely tack on a 2 or 3 percent fee for an overseas withdrawal -- does nothing, absolutely nothing, more to process an overseas withdrawal than a domestic one. It's the network and the overseas bank operating the ATM who do the work, and are compensated in the spread. There's zero justification for charging more for overseas withdrawals than domestic ones, except the shamelessness of many banks. Ditto overseas credit card charges.
There are times when banks deserve to be bashed and bashed fiercely, and this is certainly one of them.
Your bank -- which might freely tack on a 2 or 3 percent fee for an overseas withdrawal -- does nothing, absolutely nothing, more to process an overseas withdrawal than a domestic one. It's the network and the overseas bank operating the ATM who do the work, and are compensated in the spread. There's zero justification for charging more for overseas withdrawals than domestic ones, except the shamelessness of many banks. Ditto overseas credit card charges.
There are times when banks deserve to be bashed and bashed fiercely, and this is certainly one of them.
Dec 16, 2018, 7:14 am
#125
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
Hi, what is the best way in Shanghai to take out foreign currencies, such as Taiwan $ and Japanese Yen? I can think of several ways, not sure which is better.
1. Exchange at local bank with RMB. Probably the easiest way.
2. Use Schwab ATM card to take out FX in Taiwan or Japan. It is going to take time to locate ATM etc.
3. Bring RMB and buy local currency locally. FX place may not get good rate.
This is just for local travel and meals, so not large amount.
1. Exchange at local bank with RMB. Probably the easiest way.
2. Use Schwab ATM card to take out FX in Taiwan or Japan. It is going to take time to locate ATM etc.
3. Bring RMB and buy local currency locally. FX place may not get good rate.
This is just for local travel and meals, so not large amount.
Dec 16, 2018, 8:54 am
#126
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
"Exchange at local bank with RMB. Probably the easiest way."
Nothing nothing nothing is easy at Chinese banks. And that goes double when you're trying to buy foreign exchange. You do have exchange receipts for the RMB you'll be exchanging, don't you?
Just withdraw local currency in Japan and Taiwan. Only problem finding an ATM in Japan is finding one that doesn't tack on a fee.
Nothing nothing nothing is easy at Chinese banks. And that goes double when you're trying to buy foreign exchange. You do have exchange receipts for the RMB you'll be exchanging, don't you?
Just withdraw local currency in Japan and Taiwan. Only problem finding an ATM in Japan is finding one that doesn't tack on a fee.
Dec 16, 2018, 6:41 pm
#128
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
But their system doesn't always automatically pickup the fees, so you have to remember to check your statement carefully every month then file a claim if a fee's not refunded. So better to use a non-fee ATM if it's not too inconvenient. Besides, many are cautious about over-using Schwab's ATM fee waiver so as not to risk killing the golden goose.
Dec 16, 2018, 8:04 pm
#129
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,031
But their system doesn't always automatically pickup the fees, so you have to remember to check your statement carefully every month then file a claim if a fee's not refunded. So better to use a non-fee ATM if it's not too inconvenient. Besides, many are cautious about over-using Schwab's ATM fee waiver so as not to risk killing the golden goose.
Dec 17, 2018, 6:54 pm
#130
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,454
Whats the current "best way" as in transfering money from a country with a IBAN-compliant system (Switzerland) to China? Swiss bank accounts available, and could open at different banks too if there is a better way. The Chinese banks operating in Switzerland are only interested in much higher yield customers.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
Dec 18, 2018, 1:42 am
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,224
Whats the current "best way" as in transfering money from a country with a IBAN-compliant system (Switzerland) to China? Swiss bank accounts available, and could open at different banks too if there is a better way. The Chinese banks operating in Switzerland are only interested in much higher yield customers.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
Does your friend have a Chinese bank account? If so a transfer from Switzerland to China of 150K RMB won't be an issue (transferring it back is another story). Chinese banks see much bigger transactions than this all the time. If they don't have an account in China then I don't know how to make this easily.
Dec 19, 2018, 12:04 am
#132
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,530
Whats the current "best way" as in transfering money from a country with a IBAN-compliant system (Switzerland) to China? Swiss bank accounts available, and could open at different banks too if there is a better way. The Chinese banks operating in Switzerland are only interested in much higher yield customers.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
Most obviously, has to be legal. It would be approx 150.000 RMB (deposited in CHF, transferred into RMB) semi-annually or so.
Asking for a friend.
tb
Jan 11, 2019, 5:16 pm
#134
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,031
Jan 12, 2019, 3:28 am
#135
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,314
Even though the banks may be open, if your business is forex-related then they may not accept it because the forex market will still be closed.