trueblu

Thanks for the info, although I'm now more confused.

If the $50k thing has been around for years, and doesn't require paperwork, if I want to change less than $50k (or $10k), does that mean I could have e.g. gotten $2k-$3k changed at a bank or airport counter without a forex transaction slip?

The $500 thing sounds like a hassle, since it would involved (at best) visits to banks for several days in a row, and at worst, running around trying to find banks that play ball.

I didn't realise that wire transfers were so tricky -- is that even for institutions (this is a university that I'm dealing with)?

tb

jiejie

I'm not sure what you are asking. What is probably confusing is that this thread contains simultaneous references to four different situations:
1) Changing USD (or other forex) INTO RMB. This is what the $50K/$10K limitation is referring to.
2) Changing RMB into USD (or other forex).
3) Changing RMB BACK into USD (or other forex), where there is documentation that it originally came in as forex.
4) Changing USD physical currency into electronic format so it can be sent out of the country.

When we are saying "no paperwork" we are referring to not having to show things like official permission letters, tax receipts, etc.--in other words, only a passport needs to be presented.

What exactly are you trying to do? For any teller window transaction that converts Forex into RMB, whether at the airport or elsewhere, there will be a physical piece of paper documenting the transaction, of which you receive a chopped copy. Always. This is Situation #1. That piece of paper is good for converting the resulting amount of RMB (or less) back into Forex, normally within 6 months assuming you are a non-account holding visitor. That is Situation #3.

Situations #2 and #4 is where things get stickiest, and require creativity and/or a useful network.

tauphi

To avoid banks that don't know what they're doing, I suggest that you do this at the Bank of China. The only problems I've had there over the last three years have been with trainee tellers, but as long as you stick to your guns, their supervisors will set them straight.

As for the $500 per day amount, you can refer to the SAFE website:

http://fj.safe.gov.cn/110000/110000e0263021.html

So the next time some bank turns you down for doing an exchange from RMB worth US$500 or less, point them to the SAFE website.

While I was browsing the SAFE website, I noticed that they've extended the $50000 exchange period through to the end of December due to the Asian games. So if you have a large wad of RMB that you're trying to get rid of, now is the time to head to your nearest BoC branch.

tauphi

No the $50k thing is only temporary. It's been in place since April due to the World Expo. However, I just found out that it's been extended til the end of December thanks to the Asian Games.

So if you head to any BoC branch, you should be able to buy up to US$50000 worth of foreign currency with RMB.

If you wait until 2011 then you will probably have to do the $500 thing or use the black market, unless you have a work permit.

And no wire transfers aren't tricky at all. What is tricky is buying/selling foreign currency using RMB. This is because the RMB is not freely convertible, in case you haven't noticed

tauphi

I haven't been to an ICBC branch in three years so my memory is rusty

IIRC, as long as you stick to your guns and get them to ask a supervisor they will follow the rules as set out by SAFE. However, I've found BoC to be much more reliable when it comes to foreign exchange than the ICBC, plus the BoC's fees for transactions such as wires are often lower than the ICBC.

But it doesn't hurt to try if the ICBC branch is more convenient for you. After all, the regulation is on your side

trueblu

OK, this is helpful...I thought that the $50k thing was for converting RMB into forex (which is what other posts imply...see a couple further down from yours). Anyway, I'm out of China now, so can't physically convert cash. I'll just have to chase a bank transfer from the university to my account.

thanks,

tb

moondog

BofA works really well... no fees at all and the exchange rate is pretty close to WSJ.

trueblu

That's interesting, since their own blurb suggests that they will essentially incorporate a 3% spread (although no fee). Is 'pretty close' less than 3% differential?

tb

moondog

CCB BEIJING ATM WITHDRWL 10-06
-$29.92

(200)

CCB BEIJING ATM WITHDRWL 10-05
-$74.80

(500)

CCB BEIJING ATM WITHDRWL 10-04
-$44.88

(300)

CCB BEIJING ATM WITHDRWL 10-02
-$44.88

(300)

Using one of the 44.88 transactions, the exchange rate was 6.68. xe.com is showing 6.64 today (yikes!) so I think BofA is pretty good.

tauphi

It should be easy to find out. Just do a balance query and do the maths.

jiejie

I don't know about the expiration/extention date. But I can absolutely, positively, 1000% without equivocation state that in Beijing at least, as far back in late 2005, the exchange limit policy of $50K USD per year for individuals, $10K per month was in place and enforced. And hasn't changed yet. YMMV where you are. I'm not betting on seeing any cancellation of this policy as of the end of December, either. Mostly because I can't see, from the Chinese govt point of view, why it would be beneficial to either lower or raise this limit at this time.

tauphi

I'm talking about selling RMB and buying foreign notes.

jiejie

Up here, either account-less or on individual accounts, we can't sell this much RMB (US 50K worth) and buy foreign notes without involved documentation. So whatever great deal you are talking about must be specific and localized--which means for other readers who may be lurking--not to be assumed to be expandable to anywhere in China, even during the immediate future.

tauphi

http://www.safe.gov.cn/model_safe/la...000000,23&id=4

Print it out and take it with you if your bank teller has just come back from Mars.

However, even the teller at my local HSBC branch knew about this so I wonder which bank you've been going to that hasn't received this memo from SAFE?

trueblu

True, but I opted to use my (UK) nationwide debit card, since I know from experience that that had a spread of 1.5% compared with official spot rates. However, that will change in the near future, so it's good to know that the BoA gives a pretty good rate -- even better it seems.

tb