mnredfox

Pending confirmation from moondog, but if you are getting paid in USD you must still have a US bank. Why not use your US bank to pay off your Schwab card (you can do it online) and avoid the WU fee?

Schwab rocks in China (or other non-US countries as long as):

1. Visa is accepted
2. The CC machines don't convert to USD for you where you get ripped off with bad CC rates

You have to be careful about #2 above. And also, insist on #1 above as many times the CC machines need a special button to be pushed to accept foreign CC's.

jiejie

Interesting. I was explicitly told that this could not be done--depositing the notes into the exchange account. As a response to my direct question on the matter. Yes, it is a Premier account. My account has a Beijing registration which in previous years has had more restrictive requirements than HSBC mainland accounts set up in other places like Shanghai or Shenzhen. However, I haven't asked in the last year, so I'll put this re-inquiry on the to-do list.

tauphi

While it is entirely possible that your HSBC branch in Beijing may have more restrictive conditions (TIC), this particular feature is documented:

http://www.hsbc.com.cn/1/2/personal-banking/hsbcpremier

All branches should be able to accept the majors, and some (like Hong Kong Square in Shanghai) may even accept AUD.

Time to call your relationship manager

tauphi

I think the problem here is that moondog is getting paid in physical USD in China, and the challenge is to virtualise them and send them overseas without leaving the country (as opposed to carrying the notes into the US and depositing there).

moondog

In the past I've had USD wired to my BofA account, which is a sweet arrangement because:

-their online banking is quite good
-if you withdraw cash from Construction Bank ATMs, there are no fees at all and the exchange rate is always within 20 basis points of the spot rate (venture outside the network and you're looking at about $12 in fees)

But, now that I'm confronted with a growing stack of Benjamins sitting my safe (not anywhere close to enough to qualify for a Citi or HSBC account here; their minimums shock me), I'm at a bit of a loss.

tauphi

If it's less than $5000 then you can just carry them across the border. If it's more than $5000 then you'd need to get a permit or risk being dinged for smuggling.

There is another way. If you are actually spending that money here in China, you can just visit your local Bank of China branch and talk to the resident black market operator and exchange the USD for RMB without paying the usual 3% surcharge.

mnredfox

Got it, getting paid USD in China. I guess I'm lucky since I can do everything via online banking. I'm just struggling watching my USD drop via the RMB (which is what apparently the US Gov wants...)

jiejie

What 3% surcharge?!?

tauphi

If you look at the forex rates at a Chinese bank, like this one:

http://www.boc.cn/sourcedb/whpj/enindex.html

You'll notice that they have two different rates for converting foreign currency into RMB, a buying rate and a cash buying rate. The spread between these two is the premium you pay for converting physical bank notes to RMB (as opposed to wires).

OK it isn't as bad as 3% for USD, more like 1% with the rates above. But for most other currencies (including JPY/EUR) it's about 3% or more. This is on top of the buy/sell spread that the bank is already charging you.

So if you're exchanging a large amount of physical notes, including USD, then it pays to avoid this surcharge, e.g., by using your HSBC Premier account features

trueblu

A couple of quick questions...which are only partially relevant to this thread, so apologies if OT.

1. Is there a limit to what a foreigner can exchange RMB to e.g. USD. I was under the impression that one could only change back what was initially converted, and had to produce e.g. a forex slip as proof of the exchange.

The reason that I ask is that on a recent trip to BJ, the admin assistant tried to reimburse me for my flight with RMB in cash. I refused, since it would be much more than my remaining expenses, and I was concerned about being able to change the cash into USD (and the rate I would get). I asked that the sum be wired into my USD account -- which upset her no end. Was I right?

2. I was also under the impression that BoA customers, although they don't get dinged with a $5 charge for using CCB ATMs, still paid a 3% fee, according to these FAQs. That meant that I did charge some things to my CC (which charges sl. less in forex fees). Again, did I make a mistake?

I may well be travelling more to China, and want to be prepared for similar situations.

thanks,

tb

jiejie

1. Your impression is generally correct, you need the forex exchange slip to be able to convert back. ATM slips don't count. There are additional ways but they involve more official paperwork and apply more to expats on residence permits being paid in RMB than to casual visitors or sporadic-visit businessmen.

As to reimbursement, no you weren't wrong. If your flight was originally paid for in USD either by cash or credit card, you were absolutely correct in standing your ground and insisting that they come up with either USD cash or wire into your account. However, for many Chinese offices, they can't easily wire foreign currency internationally outbound either because they have no facility to do so, or because it involves a lot of red tape (and fees to them). I'm sure the admin assistant had to deal with finance/accounting and other people to actually make this happen, rather than be able to do it herself. But her getting upset about it is her problem.

That said, there is always a way for any admin assistant worth her salt to be able to--through "the network"--be able to find a way to at least get you USD cash--the main danger here being potential to get counterfeit bills. If they have a US affiliate that can deal with the reimbursement entirely in the USA, in USD, that is also an option. Another option might be to set up a USD/multicurrency account in the Chinese city you most frequent, then have the company transfer USD their account to USD your account but inside China, which is quite a bit less hassle. You would then have to be able to wire USD to USD from your account here to your account in USA. Or cash out into USD currency notes and physically take them back. If the account requires fee payment for wires--esp the international ones--then you should get upfront agreement for them to pay. If you set up an account with a foreign bank (HSBC, Citi, Standard Chartered, etc.) you may be able to also set up the ability to initiate transfers online rather than have to physically go to a bank branch to wire out.

In the future, you should get the reimbursement issue straight and currency issues in writing if contracts of any sort are involved.

moondog

The idea of "converting back" shocks me. Consider your extra "red money" an investment in future trips; you'll be able to buy mojitos at Mint for only $14 in 2012, as opposed to $22 (which, is in the cards).

tauphi

1. All foreign nationals, and HK/Taiwan/Macau residents, may exchange RMB for up to US$500 or equivalent in foreign currency per day with no paper work ^

I know because I did that for days on end before I got my work permit sorted out, thankfully before the bank kicked me out for making their lives miserable

In fact, before the end of October, thanks to the World Expo (they did the same thing during the Olympics), you may exchange up to US$50000 with no paper work. The only catch is that once you reach $50000 that's it, you're back to $500 a day.

Otherwise yes you'll need to provide paper work, lots of it if you happen to be earning a salary here

2. No idea about BoA, but if you have a US HSBC Premier debit card, you can withdraw RMB from any ATM in China for no fee (apart from whatever Mastercard builds into its exchange rate spread).

mnredfox

Can I just bring a wad of RMB to my local ICBC and ask for USD?

jiejie

You can try, but don't be surprised if you get a No without a conversion strip. Bring your passport along. If what Tauphi is saying is true, try a couple of other banks also to see if you get some joy. Unlike Tauphi, I've never seen this work in real life, at least not in Beijing, without the conversion slip. Even for under $500. My last data points on this are at least 2-3 years' old, though.

The USD $50,000-to RMB conversion limit has been around for at least 4-5 years and is not tied to the Expo. The rule for individuals is $10,000 maximum can be converted in any given month, $50,000 limit per year. Without paperwork, just your passport. USD $50,000 can be done all or part in other foreign currencies, in equivalent value. Over that limit requires quite a bit more paperwork.