I don't know about the expiration/extention date. But I can absolutely, positively, 1000% without equivocation state that in Beijing at least, as far back in late 2005, the exchange limit policy of $50K USD per year for individuals, $10K per month was in place and enforced. And hasn't changed yet. YMMV where you are. I'm not betting on seeing any cancellation of this policy as of the end of December, either. Mostly because I can't see, from the Chinese govt point of view, why it would be beneficial to either lower or raise this limit at this time.

I'm talking about selling RMB and buying foreign notes.

Up here, either account-less or on individual accounts, we can't sell this much RMB (US 50K worth) and buy foreign notes without involved documentation. So whatever great deal you are talking about must be specific and localized--which means for other readers who may be lurking--not to be assumed to be expandable to anywhere in China, even during the immediate future.

http://www.safe.gov.cn/model_safe/la...000000,23&id=4

Print it out and take it with you if your bank teller has just come back from Mars.

However, even the teller at my local HSBC branch knew about this so I wonder which bank you've been going to that hasn't received this memo from SAFE?

True, but I opted to use my (UK) nationwide debit card, since I know from experience that that had a spread of 1.5% compared with official spot rates. However, that will change in the near future, so it's good to know that the BoA gives a pretty good rate -- even better it seems.

tb

Thanks. Clearly, I should head over to HSBC this coming week and visit with the managers from Mars. :D

One of friends recently advised me that the only way to get love from Citi, HSBC, or Heng Seng in Beijing is to tell them you will be making a 6 figure (USD) deposit in the near future; apparently, they don't bother to follow up when you forget to make the deposit. I will say that the aforementioned backs are considerably less crowded than the Chinese banks. My Heng Seng friend walked me over to ICBC after she told me she didn't want my business and was taken aback by the throng of humans.

I don't think they really care about when and if you make that initial deposit. You just need to worry about whether they forget to collect the $50 dollar a month account keeping fee :D

(sorry for the mega-bump)

But I've always been wondering- why does Standard Chartered always seem to have better cash exchange rates than the others?

What's their rate? I can't find it on their website.

the banking thread
 

Whether you live here or are simply visiting, you will need money.

Back in the day, I was a BofA loyalist, due to its relationship with CCB, but I killed that account once it became no longer "free".

Moving on, anybody who's here for the long term requires a Chinese bank account. The problem I've encountered is that Chinese banks either suck or they charge insane fees. Sometimes they do both.

My company uses the Bank of Ningbo (extremely painful to deal with) because they are cheap. But, even for corporate clients like ourselves, we must earmark an hour of our time in order to perform the simplest of transactions.

In Beijing, I am impressed by Huaxia Bank; for some reason, those guys never have any lines... and, their ATMs are very nice. Merchants bank is also good, but I'm sure both charge high fees (based on their lack of customers).

In closing, I increasingly like Schwab. While wires can be a pain, their accounts entail no fees of any sort (i.e. withdrawing money from my Schwab account in Shanghai is cheaper than withdrawing money from my Beijing BankComm account).

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/...ecking_account

For low fees you can't beat the Industrial Bank (www.cib.com.cn).

In an effort to avoid fees as much as possible, I now have nine bank accounts here. Most of them I've dropped because others have come up with better offers, though.

1. Standard Chartered. Better US$ cash exchange rate than the others due to waiving the Cash/Wire exchange difference, and because I got a Breeze account while it was still no-minimum-balance I have free domestic transfers and free withdrawals anywhere in China. Plus it works with Alipay/Taobao. Downside is they're getting popular and some branches are almost as crowded as ICBC/CCB/etc.

2. Dah Sing Bank. Free withdrawals anywhere in the world (ATM operator fees notwithstanding). Quick service (there's yet to be a single time I've walked into the branch and had to wait- it's always walk in-get 'er done-walk out). And they didn't charge me to issue an ATM card. But there's only a single branch in Shanghai (at least it's in Xujiahui).

3. Nanyang Commercial Bank. I can use any BoC branch for basic RMB stuff (deposits/withdrawals for free), so that's a plus. Free ATM withdrawals in China (and I can deposit cash at BoC cash deposit machines- no intercity fee if you're outside Shanghai, which is better than BoC does for its own accounts). Downside is you have to walk into one of their own branches to open an account and those are few and far between.


Meanwhile, BoC makes me irate, to put it nicely (they make me produce ID if I do anything with my NCB account involving a teller, and there are a couple of things involving on-campus services that I *absolutely* have to use a BoC account for), ICBC makes me feel neutral at best (seriously, why can't I switch from an RMB-only credit card to an RMB+foreign currency card without reapplying? But on the plus side, it supports PayByTouch) and I keep a BankComm account only for the RFID ATM card that gets me 40% off on the vending machines.

On the US side I just use Schwab.

About a month back, I received a wire to my BankCom account, and those guys made me go back to Beijing to collect it... not just to Beijing, but to the branch in Dongzhimen, in which my account is based. And, I still had to wait in line for 30 minutes. They are a really bad bank, and my colleagues continually push me to simply go with ICBC, but I haven't jumped ship yet because: 1) I have Schwab and 2) signing up for bank accounts in China is annoying.

OK, I am a total ignoramus on this...and it really irritates me, because I am pretty picky about bank accounts in the US/UK.

In my first week here, I was told to open a bank account on campus, to allow me to be paid. I did so (CCB -- due to BoA relationship, I had one or two others choices), and amazingly, I get paid without ever giving my bank details to payroll: lack of privacy is astonishing sometimes!

I have no idea how to use my bank account. And basically, I just withdraw cash from ATMs -- CCB is v. plentiful round these parts. I seem to get the right amount of money deposited into the bank every month, and if there are fees involved, they don't seem to be exhorbitant. I would love to be able to do online banking, but been warned off that 'it's difficult' if one doesn't read chinese (may well be true).

If I need to make a bank transfer, I usually get a colleague to do it, and I pay them in cash...I hope I'm not causing them to incur fees.

tb

My current banking arsenal is as follows:

1. ICBC "VIP Elite" Account
If you can keep more than 200,000RMB in your account, I'm of the firm opinion that this is the best Chinese banking product out there. Almost all of the normal fees are waived (no inane "intercity" banking fees, no foreign ATM fees, no maintenance fees...), you can use a dedicated window at their large branches and queue jump at the smaller ones, and there's almost nothing that can't be done with their online banking site (though the English version of this is utterly useless). They even gave me a proper credit card with respectable limit (150,000) and only minimal hassle.

My primary grievance with ICBC (but this applies to all the Chinese banks) is that their online banking only plays nice with IE on Windows and requires one of those annoying little USB contraptions if you want to do anything more than check your balance. They recently rolled out something of a Mac version, but it's still very wonky and doesn't support the USB dongle (or, at least not my USB dongle).

2. HSBC Premier (in HK, US, and UK)
HSBC has great online banking (even works on Mac ^) and free transfers between HSBC accounts in different countries. They also set me up with an RMB account and linked it with my ICBC account, so I can easily deal with incoming/outgoing wires. Assuming you maintain their minimum total relationship balance, there are basically no fees for anything.

Not sure if you need an HKID to open this account or not; I used one at the time, but it may not be an actual requirement.

Like jamar, I also have a bunch of random accounts I've opened for various specific purposes, but they basically just sit empty. Alipay is also amazingly useful, although getting the account "verified" is incredibly, incredibly annoying for anyone without a 身份证 (i.e. for foreigners) and requires sending in reams of documents.

Are you referring to BofA fees state-side or with the CCB relationship? When I was there last month a CCB withdrawal from my BofA account had no fees attached (although the rate did seem to be marked up ~1%, whereas in the past the markup was essentially zero).

I like to keep things simple. I'm down to two:
1) HSBC Premier (the free wiring between the linked accounts in different countries is a godsend, and I've used HSBC ATM's in many other countries fee-free).
2) Merchants Bank for my local. Not a VIP account, but am very satisfied with their service and overall competence. I use primarily for local payments such as utilities and for local ATM. I just visit a branch when I need something, don't deal with online (in which they sadly do not have the best interface for English readers.)

I had BoC when I first arrived in China since banking was different back then and they were the only ones that could deal with individual foreigners needing incoming forex wires and all that in Beijing (banking restrictions in Beijing were not loosened as early as they were in Shanghai and some other cities). I kissed them goodbye back in 2004 or 2005 when they had long outlived their usefulness and I realized I hadn't used the account in a year.

HSBC USA retail banking is going to be going away due to corporate restructuring. I will look into the Schwab thing.

Other than HSBC who has decent English internet banking?

Standard Chartered. No USB dongle required either and it works on just about any browser (I've tried it on an iPad, Android smartphone, and can successfully log in and check balances/transfer money on all of them).

The only unfortunate thing is that "Breeze 2.0" requires a 100k minimum deposit. I got in back when that was zero and have been warned that I might have to make that minimum by end of '13.

100k of which currency?:)

100K RMB. If you have that money, go for it- I've yet to find another bank whose online banking works with anything other than IE. If you don't (like in my case- my bank balances here rarely go over 10k RMB total), they still have a zero-minimum account, but without free inter-bank withdrawals and transfers.

When I opened my BoC account (chosen because they are right in the next apt building where I live and even open on Saturday), they set me up with a 'VIP' account, which means getting access to online banking in a fully english interface.

Even then, there is a learning curve to figure out the Chinese way of working, but I didn't find it any more challenging than when I moved to Belgium and had to navigate KBC's system.

I only use the most basic functions - ATM/getting money out, paying for things via Unionpay. Luckily for me my major local expenses are directly paid for, so it's just routine daily expenses. Though I get paid ex-China, I arranged for a portion of my COLA to be paid here, and then bring in cold hard RMB cash from Singapore where I am tax-based. I just don't want to deal with wire transfers and such in China. And I figure if I really do need money I'll just use my Citibank or Singapore bank ATMs to access my funds.

AFAIK what's going away has already gone, i.e., the upstate NY branches. I'm pretty sure they're keeping the rest, including HSBC Premier, for now.

I think I probably need to pay my bank a visit: not set inside the lobby since opening my account! It's possible these things are available to me aswell, but since most of my colleagues are chinese, they never thought to consider english language interface.

tb

So far Merchants Bank has been good to me. The staff of the place I visited were very friendly and helped me set up a bank acount with them with almost no paperwork required. Also transactions with them so far have been quick and easy.
I've only started recently so I haven't had much experience with them; the problems I've had so far are the super high currency conversion rate that they charge when I get my overseas salary converted into RMB, and that I have to do the conversion manually each month by visiting the bank. (It's remitted into my account but it stays as yen. I don't know if there's a way to automatically have it converted or if I can do it online.)

You need to ask. I know with HSBC China, there is online capability for retail customers to convert forex to RMB, but you have to do an initial in-person setup at a branch and have them activate this online feature. But once you have it, it's great. However, still subject to the US$ equivalent 50K per year without special permission. I would think Merchant's has either online per your manual instruction, or a standing-order auto-conversion by the bank, or both options.

No. Several years ago, BofA started charging me a monthly fee for some reason. When I asked them about this, they said I simply needed to close my account and open a new --fee free for life-- account on their website, which they were happy to help me do inside the branch.

But, they didn't keep their promise for long... the new account eventually ended up hitting me $15 per month (it's easy to miss stuff like this when you're overseas). I now keep a zero balance in that account, and only turn it back on for people who are challenged by the idea of sending a wire to my Schwab account (I will admit that BofA online banking is idiot proof).

My other gripe about the BofA/CCB tie up is that CCB ATMs near my place in Beijing often run out of money on Sundays and during holiday periods. This even happens at the enormous CCB branch on the first floor of our office building in Shanghai. When using your BofA card at a non CCB ATM, one needs to be prepared to accept a HUGE hit.

On a related note, does anyone have experience using US credit union cards in China? I have an account with one from my college, and have heard that they reimburse ATM fees, but haven't resorted to it in a while because I like Schwab. (I'm somewhat fearful that Schwab will not be great forever... witness what happened to those amazing Schwab credit cards many of us used to have.)

One of the visiting faculty at my uni had an account at a credit union back in the US and apparently it was hit-and-miss. Definitely nothing extra taken when he used his card at Standard Chartered ATMs, though.

moondog, FAQ already links to here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...banks-prc.html

Do you think we can merge threads?

Sure; let's do it. I forgot about the other thread... my bad.

As bad as BofA is, others in the US (with noted exceptions) are worse. $5+1% is not always more than 3%,which is what another bank I have charges.

Or $5+3% (I'm looking at you, Wells Fargo). That was horrible.

Done, with some mild retitling for searchability. /JDiver, Senior Moderator

I was reading this thread since my son is going to Beijing University and I was trying to determine what (if any) bank account we might consider opening. One comment and two questions:

COMMENT: Re the question about credit union accounts (US), my son and I have a joint account at the Delta Community Credit Union. He handles virtually all of his spend in Beijing by pulling money out of an ATM. I transfer money from my account to his to give him some buffer. The charges show up and include a 1% foreign transaction fee charged to the account. I never see any ATM fee, but perhaps it is embedded in the cash transaction. I think I looked at that some time ago and it was not far off the OANDA rates. I will review the published rates to the actual withdrawals and see if that is still the case

QUESTION: We have the need to pay his yearly tuition and dorm room each year. Unlike his Korean school, we can't find a way to transfer money directly to the university for payment. So last year and now this year, I brought enough cash with me and flew over with him to make the tuition/dorm payments. So I don't think we really need an account for day to day items but it would be convenient to have a bank account that we could transfer money in from our US acct and just have him pay his "big ticket" items from that account. So... my question is whether there is any PRC bank with locations/ATMs in Beijing that would make sense for this? We are here now to re-up for this year and am considering the possibility of opening an account, since we have to go to a bank to convert the USD anyway. My guess is that fees would eat up any advantage to having the account for this scenario.

QUESTION: For simple conversion of USD cash into RMB cash, is there a web site that is accurate and that I can use to see which bank in Beijing would give me the biggest net return for USD?

Thanks in advance..

As has been mentioned before: Bank of America has a relationship with China Construction Bank (CCB). This allows fee-free withdrawals, and you can withdraw a fair amount (at least 10-20kRMB/day) with the right settings on the account. This is by far the easiest and cheapest way of 'transferring' large sums of USD to RMB. And there are plenty of CCB branches in Haidian near to Beida. To open a CCB account, I think your son will need a visa that is not an L, (F/X as a student) with 12 month validity, but check on that.

When I first moved, I had to 'transfer' several thousand dollars -- rent deposit, buy stuff etc., although now, being paid in RMB, I have the opposite problem. I can say that the conversion rates are pretty good, and far better than other options that I explored.

tb

Question #2 first: It doesn't matter--USD-RMB conversion rates are controlled and set by the Chinese government, so only the tiniest variations between banks are possible and for the amounts you're dealing with, won't matter. Therefore, choose bank on convenience and service.

Question #1: Will this be your son's final year? If so, probably not worth the trouble to set up a bank account....as long as you trust him with that sort of USD cash to travel with and do the conversion and make the payment himself. Frankly, if he's old enough to travel and go to university in a foreign country, he should be able to manage this. But perhaps your son is irresponsible, or you fear he'll take the cash and head for Tahiti instead.

If he tends to lose things or loves South Pacific beaches, then perhaps a bank account is the way to go, it's not that hard to set up. Likely though, he's going to need to do this in person in China. It won't take long to set up a bank account but may need a few days to wire over the money for the first time to a new account (allowing for learning curves on both your ends), then make the payment. So if is already in China, or can come a week in advance of when his payment is due, this could work.

The simplest bank account of the type he needs is a mixed-currency USD-RMB account that can receive the USD incoming, then when it comes in, he can convert it into RMB. The RMB can then be local-transferred (very cheap) to the university's bank, which surely is possible. Or RMB can be withdrawn and taken to the bursar's office directly. He needs to ask the right questions though, as if he wants a Chinese ATM/debit card on this account, he needs to make sure he opens up an account that can do this. Some mixed-currency accounts can't, in which case separate USD and RMB accounts are also feasible and make issuing an ATM card on the local RMB account easier. He must take his passport with him at all times for any in-person banking business. If his Chinese is not good enough to manage, he needs to take along a Chinese-speaking friend to the bank.

Location should be convenient for him, but he needs to choose a sizeable branch for setting up his accounts, that does forex (not all branches of all banks do). I'd stick with a big bank. Ideally one that has quite a few foreign student customers and routinely deals with incoming foreign wires.

FT local expat trueblu lives and works out in this area and might be able to suggest specific banks/branches based on his experience. If he doesn't show up here soon, private message him.

ETA: he beat me to the punch! And you can set up bank accounts with any visa status, but your son sounds like he has a Residence Permit based on long term student (X visa) status. One thing though: if you don't bank with BofA right now, I suggest you not bother. I think when you add up the costs and headaches of dealing with that skanky outfit (unless you plan to keep a large sum parked there in the USA account), then it would be better to suck it up, pay for one international wire fee on a single major transfer from your existing credit union to new Chinese account. Then he can use the Chinese ATM/debit to access the new RMB local account, and as backup Plan B, use the existing credit union ATM card.

Or find a bank with decent English-speaking customer service. Standard Chartered has yet to fail me on this front, but they don't have as many branches as the "local" banks.

Thanks for the quick responses! Regarding which bank to use for conversion of USD, I assumed that while the rate may be similar that fees might vary widely. perhaps not.

As for setting up a semi-permanent account, we are both here now with cash. He speaks Chinese fairly well...he studied here for about 2 years just to get language up so that he could be admitted to Peking University as an undergraduate. He has 4 more years, so we will consider your suggestions. We don't have a personal BOA account back home, so we may have to plan better and create his account later and use it for future payments.

With 4 more years, he definitely needs a local bank account that has ability (or linked to a forex account) to handle incoming wires. Fees shouldn't differ too much for cash conversions.