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-   -   Dangerous food? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china/1079791-dangerous-food.html)

moondog Jun 28, 2011 7:16 pm


Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 16638610)
If I get something served to me that just doesn't taste right, like it is spoiled or made with recycled oil, what do I say to send it back? What is a simple phrase to use? Would "bu hao" work?

Since you're talking that Chinese class, why not ask your teach to do some role playing with you on this topic? You can get a lot more creative than "不好".

anacapamalibu Jun 28, 2011 8:13 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 16642333)
? You can get a lot more creative than "不好".

Got to remember that "face" concept. Not to insult their culinary skills.
Better to tell a "white lie", that you didn't order that.


Wo mei you zhe ge cai

mnredfox Jun 28, 2011 8:19 pm


Originally Posted by jiejie (Post 16637019)
Dish should go back, with complaints, not replaced, and removed from the bill. If the kitchen uses recycled oil on one of your dishes, I guarantee you they're using it on other dishes if they think they can get away with it, so anything further coming out of the kitchen is suspect. It's easier to detect recycled oil in some dishes than in others, and if the restaurant staff mixes recycled in with new, can be hard to discover just by taste.

I guess if you are that worried and in a lower-end restaurant, you could swing the odds in your favor by sticking with steamed or stewed kinds of dishes and avoid stir-fried and especially deep-fried items.

I think all good ideas here. Recycled oil is a challenging one and hard to tell. I just kind of say screw it and do my best and avoid super sketchy places, but in some sense you can't avoid everything. Heck, I wouldn't necessarily equate nicer and more expensive to not using recycled oil. In China, anything goes.


Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 16638610)
If I get something served to me that just doesn't taste right, like it is spoiled or made with recycled oil, what do I say to send it back? What is a simple phrase to use? Would "bu hao" work?

You could also say "hen nan chi" which essentially means tastes bad. Jamoldo has good suggestions about using body language. I'm really glad you're trying out the language and don't seem to be afraid, that's part of the fun. Keep in mind Chinese can be just as nervous about using English, so don't be afraid to do what you can to communicate.

In general, sometimes sending food back in China can be a huge challenge. I've more than once had to enjoy my experience with arguing with the waiter and chef and then owner why food is bad and why I won't pay. Either way, don't be afraid (esp through language barriers) to make your case, but be 100% sure it is bad. Some bad tasting food by say Americans is actually culinary delights in China, and I'd hate to see some person call a food bad when really it is cooked quite well (eg stinky toufu, bitter melon, and some of the more adventurous dishes).

moondog Jun 28, 2011 10:30 pm


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 16642573)
Got to remember that "face" concept. Not to insult their culinary skills.
Better to tell a "white lie", that you didn't order that.

I don't know. Sometimes it's necessary to throw face out the window. But, I agree the initial focus should be on not wanting the food, something that can be accomplished with body language alone. But, all but the most timid servers will ask "why?" and "I didn't order that," doesn't persuade many people; best to explain the dish's flaws.

In any case, I agree with mnredfox; avoid super sketchy places and this isn't much of a problem.

anacapamalibu Jun 28, 2011 11:22 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 16643069)
But, I agree the initial focus should be on not wanting the food, something that can be accomplished with body language alone. But, all but the most timid servers will ask "why?" and "I didn't order that," doesn't persuade many people; best to explain the dish's flaws.

Not wanting the food because its prepared incorrectly?

How can a foreigner with little or no language skills effectively communicate this.

If you are so cheap you don't want to pay for meal you ordered and don't have any idea what it should taste like. Then, why not lie and just say
"I didn't order this".

moondog Jun 28, 2011 11:46 pm


Originally Posted by anacapamalibu (Post 16643230)
If you are so cheap you don't want to pay for meal you ordered and don't have any idea what it should taste like.

Because part of me believes that if I raise a stink, positive changes might ensue.

Take Taco Bell's failed attempt to enter the market, for example. They did just about everything conceivable wrong (starting with taking that consultancy's advice about adapting the menu to "Chinese tastes). I ordered a margarita there once; what showed up on the table was a cocktail glass filled to the rim with some bottom shelf brand of room temperature gold tequila with a bit of sugar and lemon juice mixed in. Sorry, but that's a "fail" in my book. I didn't pay, I never returned, but I did advise them to google "margarita recipe" if they wanted to continue to sell them.

Or how about this? You order caprese at a mid range Italian place, and the menu description specifically states fresh buffalo mozzarella, tomatoes, and basil. While you give them a pass on the mozzarella: 1) coming from cow's milk; and 2) not being fresh -- when the dish shows up without basil, it's perfectly justifiable to call "foul" (not that this is always advisable... best wait until the rest of your dishes are on the table).

mnredfox Jun 29, 2011 12:15 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 16643303)
Because part of me believes that if I raise a stink, positive changes might ensue.

Take Taco Bell's failed attempt to enter the market, for example. They did just about everything conceivable wrong (starting with taking that consultancy's advice about adapting the menu to "Chinese tastes). I ordered a margarita there once; what showed up on the table was a cocktail glass filled to the rim with some bottom shelf brand of room temperature gold tequila with a bit of sugar and lemon juice mixed in. Sorry, but that's a "fail" in my book. I didn't pay, I never returned, but I did advise them to google "margarita recipe" if they wanted to continue to sell them.

Or how about this? You order caprese at a mid range Italian place, and the menu description specifically states fresh buffalo mozzarella, tomatoes, and basil. While you give them a pass on the mozzarella: 1) coming from cow's milk; and 2) not being fresh -- when the dish shows up without basil, it's perfectly justifiable to call "foul" (not that this is always advisable... best wait until the rest of your dishes are on the table).

Oh but what most American's would give to order a bottom of the barrel tequila at TBell in the US. It would go well with the Chalupa or whatever it is. :D

susiesan Jun 29, 2011 9:19 am

would saying" this tastes like s**t" be insulting?
 

Originally Posted by moondog (Post 16642333)
Since you're talking that Chinese class, why not ask your teach to do some role playing with you on this topic? You can get a lot more creative than "不好".

My class ended in May. Now, I have to look in my phrase book or the online MDGB dictionary to see how to say things. I'm perfectly happy trying the charades route to express myself. I have years of theater and acting experience. I'm definitely not afraid to perform in front of strangers.

Many good suggestions here. I'll start working them into my memorized repertoire of useful phrases for traveling in China. ;)

jiejie Jun 29, 2011 9:39 am

My personal guidelines for sending vs not-sending food back in local Chinese restaurants. I will exclude major hotel or upscale independent restaurants, where I feel a dish with a critical problem should always be brought to the attention of the staff/kitchen and either a do-over or substitute dish or bill adjustment should be done (situation dependent).

In a local Chinese restaurant that is lower end/lower cost, a dish that I ordered but just don't happen to like...and has no proveable dealbreaker, is chalked up to experience and paid for, without complaint. I just don't eat it. This happens to all of us, and reasonably regularly in China if you like to try new things. I never try to lie and tell them the dish wasn't what I ordered, if I ordered it but it is just bad, I hit the issue head-on if it's major enough to be bothered. I don't get into subjective issues such as "incorrectly prepared."

One such dish in an otherwise decent array is just avoided on future visits to that restaurant. Taste/Flavor deficiencies in many dishes usually get a full restaurant avoidance in the future, though not usually sendbacks and bill adjustments at the time.

However, in the same type of local Chinese restaurant, reasons that dishes would not be eaten and a bill adjustment demanded, with no do-overs since my trust in the kitchen would be nil at that point:
--spoiled or off-tasting ingredient (spit out the nasty, don't eat!)
--detection of old/bad oil (only possible in some types of dishes)
--detection of foreign matter in the dish (insect, hair, etc.)
--obviously leftover/rewarmed food not cooked fresh per order

Reasons for asking for local restaurant do-overs, situation depending:
--completely incorrect dish provided--giving me the stewed doufu in brown sauce when I ordered Japanese doufu with eggplant and peppers
--inclusion of an ingredient specifically requested for substitution or omission (giving me the lamb instead of the beef, etc.)
--burned food, unless the rest of the meal is generally hopeless, in which case I just ask for a bill adjustment.

I suggest students of basic Mandarin put a few phrases together that can communicate the essence of the issues, doesn't need to be full-sentence proper Chinese. For instance, the word "burned" a finger-point, and "cook it again" would be sufficient in real-time to any Chinese restaurant staff. If you have a tutor, do as part of your "ordering in a restaurant" lessons.

susiesan Jun 29, 2011 11:52 am

timely article
 
From the June 26 LA Times. Food horror stories from China.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun...-food-20110627

moondog Jun 29, 2011 6:57 pm


Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 16645998)
From the June 26 LA Times. Food horror stories from China.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun...-food-20110627

from the article:


In May, a Shanghai woman who had left uncooked pork on her kitchen table woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that the meat was emitting a blue light, like something out of a science fiction movie. Experts pointed to phosphorescent bacteria, blamed for another case of glow-in-the-dark pork last year.

mnredfox Jun 30, 2011 12:51 am


Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 16645998)
From the June 26 LA Times. Food horror stories from China.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun...-food-20110627

Sadly this still happens very frequently in China. But don't let it ruin your trip, just be careful and eat merry.

Q49iy5 Jun 30, 2011 3:26 am

Bad oil
 
Recycled oil is a tough call. I’m not really sure I can tell when an establishment is using it. Sometimes that "off" taste is because the restaurant uses cheap rapeseed oil or a blend containing too much of it. Rapeseed grown for oil in China is not the same variety that is used in most of the west (yielding the better tasting "Canola" oil.)

Once I bought a bottle of the bad stuff by mistake for use in cooking at home (in Kunming.) Everything I made with it, from scrambled eggs to sautéed eggplant, tasted about the same and made my entire house smell bad. Now I'm pretty good at identifying it when eating out.

Agree with @jiejie's list of when to send things back, but would add being undercooked. Last month I ordered spare ribs 排骨 that had an agreeable flavor, but they were too tough to chew. I sent them back and received an apology from the owner.

When I send things back, which is admittedly rare, I don't do it an arrogant or nasty way. I always start almost as though I hate to bother them. "Sorry, but I cannot eat this. Could you make it a different way?" Seems to work better like that, though escalation may be required.

I realize this is getting off the topic of "dangerous food" per se and more into the area of getting food you will enjoy, but a big issue here in Yunnan, as well as in many other parts of China, is whether or not you like things spicy. If you don't, "bu yao lajiao" 不要辣椒 needs to be one of the restaurant phrases you learn early on.

mnredfox Jun 30, 2011 11:08 am


Originally Posted by Q49iy5 (Post 16649984)
I realize this is getting off the topic of "dangerous food" per se and more into the area of getting food you will enjoy, but a big issue here in Yunnan, as well as in many other parts of China, is whether or not you like things spicy. If you don't, "bu yao lajiao" 不要辣椒 needs to be one of the restaurant phrases you learn early on.

I learned very early on that in Sichuan, Hunan, and Chongqing (or anywhere that isn't Cantonese food that is) that "不辣" could mean for me that I'll still burn my tongue off. ;)

Jiatong Oct 21, 2011 6:22 pm


Originally Posted by Q49iy5 (Post 16649984)
Recycled oil is a tough call. I’m not really sure I can tell when an establishment is using it. Sometimes that "off" taste is because the restaurant uses cheap rapeseed oil or a blend containing too much of it. Rapeseed grown for oil in China is not the same variety that is used in most of the west (yielding the better tasting "Canola" oil.)

Once I bought a bottle of the bad stuff by mistake for use in cooking at home (in Kunming.) Everything I made with it, from scrambled eggs to sautéed eggplant, tasted about the same and made my entire house smell bad. Now I'm pretty good at identifying it when eating out.

Agree with @jiejie's list of when to send things back, but would add being undercooked. Last month I ordered spare ribs 排骨 that had an agreeable flavor, but they were too tough to chew. I sent them back and received an apology from the owner.

When I send things back, which is admittedly rare, I don't do it an arrogant or nasty way. I always start almost as though I hate to bother them. "Sorry, but I cannot eat this. Could you make it a different way?" Seems to work better like that, though escalation may be required.

The oil issue might need a new post, but here goes;

The China Ministry of health just announced that they 'still cannot distinguish gutter oil from legitimate cooking oil'. the government's five proposed methods of testing for gutter oil have, thus far, proved ineffective. they need to initiate a good kitchen waste and recycling program, or let people know that gutter oil is now seen as a viable means to cost-effectively meet demand . ( another way to control food inflation !)


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