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And you thought liquid checks were bad....Here come powders

And you thought liquid checks were bad....Here come powders

Old Aug 24, 09, 9:24 pm
  #196  
 
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Originally Posted by ND Sol View Post
Then I guess the busiest airport in the world doesn't know what is correct. Here is the response I received just last month.
Are you referring to the ATL airport? That's the busiest one in the world (for a while now), but I thought you were talking about airports in Texas.
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Old Aug 24, 09, 9:59 pm
  #197  
 
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Originally Posted by jfulcher View Post
Are you referring to the ATL airport? That's the busiest one in the world (for a while now), but I thought you were talking about airports in Texas.
My mistake, you are right that ATL overtook it a few years ago.
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Old Aug 25, 09, 6:37 am
  #198  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post
Unfortunately, this is not how it works, at least not with this administration. The health care issue, seems a good part of the nation is against it, but what are our elected representatives saying about that? "A small group of malcontents", "special interests mobilizing", and a few other things. Seems that they are ignoring the will of the people.
Three points in reply:

1. The way it works is not necessarily the way it has to work in the future. We can always work to make it better.

2. I don't know what "the will of the people" is -- either on health care, or on TSA procedures. (Let's drop the health care example, so that we don't get dragged down into OMNI.) TSA claims that 95% of passengers approve of their procedures ... with little or no documentation as to how that number is justified. On the other side, postings on public blogs, forums like FT, and newspaper articles seem overwhelmingly against the TSA and its procedures ... with no indication as to whether or not those negative posters are simply the same folks posting over and over again. No-one, on either side of the issue, has convinced me convincingly what "the will of the people" is on TSA --- and so each side claims that "the will of the people" is with them.

3. "The will of the people" is, at times, irrelevant. If the will of the people is unjust or immoral, then it deserves to be ignored. The question should not be "do most people agree with this?". The question should be "is it right?"
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Old Aug 25, 09, 5:10 pm
  #199  
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Originally Posted by mikeef
Something tells me that this thread is going to get veryyyyy long...

Mike
bingo!!
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Old Aug 25, 09, 8:00 pm
  #200  
 
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All this is nothing. It's only a matter of time before some idiot gets caught with a vague idea of creating a bomb disguised to look like a Snickers bar.
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Old Aug 25, 09, 8:02 pm
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Originally Posted by khurley View Post
All this is nothing. It's only a matter of time before some idiot gets caught with a vague idea of creating a bomb disguised to look like a Snickers bar.
"Mmmm ... still fresh!" (I know, it was actually a Baby Ruth bar)
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Old Aug 25, 09, 8:27 pm
  #202  
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Originally Posted by khurley View Post
All this is nothing. It's only a matter of time before some idiot gets caught with a vague idea of creating a bomb disguised to look like a Snickers bar.
good one ^ but that would be fine with me as i despise snickers bars and blowing one up means there's one less in the world . now, three musketeers (or milky ways for goalie-mom) on the other hand.....them's fightin' words
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Old Aug 27, 09, 5:48 am
  #203  
 
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
Three points in reply:

1. The way it works is not necessarily the way it has to work in the future. We can always work to make it better.

2. I don't know what "the will of the people" is -- either on health care, or on TSA procedures. (Let's drop the health care example, so that we don't get dragged down into OMNI.) TSA claims that 95% of passengers approve of their procedures ... with little or no documentation as to how that number is justified. On the other side, postings on public blogs, forums like FT, and newspaper articles seem overwhelmingly against the TSA and its procedures ... with no indication as to whether or not those negative posters are simply the same folks posting over and over again. No-one, on either side of the issue, has convinced me convincingly what "the will of the people" is on TSA --- and so each side claims that "the will of the people" is with them.

3. "The will of the people" is, at times, irrelevant. If the will of the people is unjust or immoral, then it deserves to be ignored. The question should not be "do most people agree with this?". The question should be "is it right?"
OUCH! Well said Jim. ^

Given the percentage of people who actually exercise their right to vote now days, its kind of difficult to determine "what" the will of the people is.

I cant speak for other airports, but at mine the supervisors keep track of the number of compliments and complaints they receive each shift. Verbal and written. And they pass this information along to the TSA Customer Support Manager, who is responsible for tracking the data and reporting it to HQ. I get to see this data on occasion, and must say that the 95% you quote is quite low, at least for my airport. 99% would be closer. Now, of course that is not an indication of how people think about TSA in general, but it is a great indicator on how well the TSO's I work with treat the passengers.

Most people seem to know that this is a thankless job, and they take the time to thank us anyway. We get the occasional complaint, and in most cases its about the process and not the individual TSO's. Even those are rare.
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Old Aug 27, 09, 5:53 am
  #204  
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That also makes the assumption that complaints are recorded and not ignored or put in the garbage if in writing. I'm serious about that - DEN has a history of complaints disappearing. Awhile back, they claimed they had less than a dozen in a year and I know people that filed more than that over the course of that time.

In any service industry, it's easy to "forget" the bad stuff and pad statistics.

Quite honestly, the TSA doesn't rank down with the IRS in most despised agency if it's getting in the neighborhood of 95-99% compliment rate.

Last edited by Superguy; Aug 27, 09 at 6:10 am
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Old Aug 27, 09, 11:19 am
  #205  
 
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I'm sorry to interrupt, but -- is there ANYTHING at all the TSO folk can tell us about the original topic of powders?

Women are going to be disproportionately impacted by this, just as we were by the liquids ban, and it would be nice not to have it sprung on me at 6 am on a Monday morning when I'm trying to get somewhere.
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Old Aug 27, 09, 1:52 pm
  #206  
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Originally Posted by AngryMiller View Post
It is an engineering thing. If you mean 3.00 then 3.00 is what is meant. If you say 3 then anything from 3.0000 to 3.99999 is acceptable.
Remind me to stay off any bridges you designed.
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Old Aug 27, 09, 2:26 pm
  #207  
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When they start digging through powders, I'm going to start carrying powdered garlic just in case I run into something that needs flavoring.
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Old Aug 27, 09, 4:20 pm
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post
I cant speak for other airports, but at mine the supervisors keep track of the number of compliments and complaints they receive each shift. Verbal and written. And they pass this information along to the TSA Customer Support Manager, who is responsible for tracking the data and reporting it to HQ. I get to see this data on occasion, and must say that the 95% you quote is quite low, at least for my airport. 99% would be closer. Now, of course that is not an indication of how people think about TSA in general, but it is a great indicator on how well the TSO's I work with treat the passengers.
I suspect, however, that there's a major problem with that statistic. How does the number of compliments and complaints compare with the total number of people who pass through the checkpoint? I suspect that the number of people who say nothing is far larger than the set of people who offer complaints or compliments --- probably by an order of magnitude. So, how do we interpret that silence?

If you like TSA, you'll be likely to claim that the silent ones also like TSA, because they're not complaining. If you don't like TSA, you'll be likely to claim that the silent ones also don't like TSA, because they've learned that expressing a negative opinion at the checkpoint rarely leads to a good result ... and has the potential to lead to bad results (being charged with "interfering with the screening process", being given a retaliatory secondary screening, etc.).

The truth is: we can't read anything into silence. We don't know what the silent majority thinks about TSA, because they're silent on the issue.
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Old Aug 27, 09, 6:10 pm
  #209  
 
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Originally Posted by sethb View Post
When they start digging through powders, I'm going to start carrying powdered garlic just in case I run into something that needs flavoring.
Label some innocent powder as "a*thr*x" and say "ooooh, I don't think you should open that!!"
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Old Aug 27, 09, 6:28 pm
  #210  
 
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Originally Posted by mikeef View Post
Something tells me that this thread is going to get veryyyyy long...

Mike
Yeap good chance
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