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And you thought liquid checks were bad....Here come powders

And you thought liquid checks were bad....Here come powders

Old Aug 23, 09, 3:40 pm
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I don't disagree that the signs should be updated. I was explaining why they weren't updated immediately. Hell, the ink was barely dry before the change came out.

Still, this isn't a government conspiracy. It's more like government bureaucracy. You call it incompetence, and that's fair. I've worked with government agencies long enough to know that this, too, comes with the territory.

I don't lose any sleep over it.
You're right - it is incompetence. How could TSA NOT account for the fact that 95% of the world uses the metric system when coming up with the policy?

Of course, given the stupidity of the policy, it makes sense that it would be stupidly implemented.
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Old Aug 23, 09, 3:52 pm
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
Some of you will insist on holding your breath until you're blue in the face.
And some will keep "inhaling" and/or drinking the kool aid ...
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Old Aug 23, 09, 3:54 pm
  #168  
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Last edited by Bart; Sep 18, 09 at 7:13 pm
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:00 pm
  #169  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
In order to be completely accurate and consistent with our counterparts overseas, the correct policy should be: 3.3814022558900003 fluid ounces for liquids and the signs should read 3.3814022558900003:1:1

Have fun!
No. In order to be complete accurate and consistent, we should say what the policy really is: 100ml for liquids. Simple, clean, accurate, and consistent with the measuring system that the rest of the frakking world uses. And 100-1-1 is just as simple as 3-1-1 is.
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:02 pm
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I'm not stationed at DFW.
You only train TSO's at one airport?
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I'm not stationed at DFW.
Interesting.

You don't limit your comments only to specifics about your airport.....

Unless it is to avoid and issue.
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:04 pm
  #172  
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Last edited by Bart; Sep 18, 09 at 7:13 pm Reason: Merging multiple, successive posts
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I'm going to assume you were around during the 70's when we tried to convert over to the metric system. Americans simply refused to make the switch. I agree with you that it would all be much easier. But you and I will never see it happen in our lifetimes.
In fact, I was a kid in the 70s, and went through all sorts of education in elementary school and middle school about the metric system. I was perfectly ready to make the switch, 'cuz all the grown-ups said that it was important to do so. Somehow, it never happened.

The problem with making the switch is that The Powers That Be should've just said "we're switching, deal with it". If you ask people whether or not they want to change something in their lives --- myself included --- they're more likely to say "no, I like my life the way it is". Switching can't be a matter of choice.

I buy soda in 2-liter bottles all the time ... and, for that matter, so does everyone else in the US. Somehow, we've gotten used to that particular metric quantity without hoards of soda drinkers marching on Washington. We could do it in other areas, too. And this one, where the limit is specifically defined in metric, would seem to be an obvious place to start.

But I do love tilting at windmills ...
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:40 pm
  #174  
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Last edited by Bart; Sep 18, 09 at 7:12 pm
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Old Aug 23, 09, 4:58 pm
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I'm not stationed at DFW.
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
You only train TSO's at one airport?
Originally Posted by Tom M. View Post
Interesting.

You don't limit your comments only to specifics about your airport.....

Unless it is to avoid and issue.
Bart gets around . but seriously, he trains at more than one airport and because of that, he has been able to share comments about multiple experiences
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Old Aug 23, 09, 5:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I'll share with you what the policy states, and I'll share with you my insights on how TSOs are trained, all within the limitations I have to abide by as a TSA employee. .
And passengers can only go by what TSA publishes

Like the following taken from the TSA website

According to Security Operations Assistant Administrator Lee Kair, "By placing shoes directly on the belt or in a bin isolated from other items, TSA officers have a clearer view, which may result in faster image resolution and reduced screening time."
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Old Aug 23, 09, 5:04 pm
  #177  
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Last edited by Bart; Sep 18, 09 at 7:12 pm
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Old Aug 23, 09, 5:10 pm
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post
Hey, I grew up an Army brat and then went into the Army. So I was already in the habit of referring to kilometers (or "clicks") rather than miles, liters rather than ounces/pints/quarts, grams rather than pounds, etc. And since you grew up in the 70's, then I'm sure you remember the poster of the bikini babe who measured 36-24-36 but it was converted into metric 91-61-91.
Well, to be completely honest, I was quite the stereotypical nerd back then ...

But you've actually provided more evidence. People can use metric just fine, if given the proper incentive. In your case, it was probably a rather large and obnoxious drill sergeant. But in any case, if we had collective leadership on an issue like this, it'd happen, despite the belly-aching.

So ... yeah. 100-1-1 for president!
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Old Aug 23, 09, 5:31 pm
  #179  
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Originally Posted by whirledtraveler View Post
If this happens, I think we're in a very good position to push back.

1) People hate the TSA now more than ever.
2) There has been no high profile incident to trigger the change.

I don't think the TSA has enough political capital for this.
I agree, bring it on!

Public momentum has been building against the TSA for quite some time now. However, in addition to "pushing back" directly, we need make more of an effort to inform others about ways to push back, e.g. logging incidents with the ACLU (which ultimately results in lawsuits) and bogging TSA down with formal complaints.

As we've done by requesting clean gloves at every opportunity, we also need to be diligent to ensure that our powders (whether we actually use them or just bring them along to keep TSA [un]gainfully occupied) don't become cross-contaminated. For example, I'd hate to end up with baby powder in my Metamucil.

Last edited by MikeMpls; Aug 23, 09 at 6:14 pm
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Old Aug 23, 09, 6:14 pm
  #180  
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Originally Posted by Bart View Post

Since you're still relatively new to this forum, the old timers in here know that I've always made this claim. Hence the term "Bartworld," which is used from time to time, sometimes for me and sometimes against me. The specific comment was aimed at me about "one of your well-trained TSOs." I'll accept it if it's any of the TSOs at SAT. That's my responsibility, and I fully accept any criticisms. But my maximum effective range only extends to SAT and perhaps a couple of its spoke airports (it's a complicated story). I don't train any of the TSOs at DFW.

I'll share with you what the policy states, and I'll share with you my insights on how TSOs are trained, all within the limitations I have to abide by as a TSA employee. In other words, there are some topics I simply cannot discuss because I've signed non-disclosure statements and acknowledge the consequences should I violate those agreements.


Look, Supe, all I'm doing is sharing some tips on how you can process through the checkpoint more smoothly. I think a fair number of people who read these posts will accept the tips (if you ever found out who they were, you would probably brand them as "sheeples" and "Ma & Pa Kettles" who don't know better). And I think that others, such as yourself, will refuse to even acknowledge these little travel tips because in your mind, this would be akin to giving in to the Great Satan. Hence, you will hold your breath and then come back in here and complain about how screwed up your latest experience at the checkpoint was.

I know what the current policy is. I know what the current procedures are. I know how I train my TSOs.
I actually meant the collective TSA you but if you want ownership that's ok.

My gripe is that people who travel are getting different messages about this and other aspects of screening depending on which airport they are in.

Now TSA is one organization. The procedures should be the same airport to airport. But they are not.

How in the world can you expect a person to know how to process through screening when the frickin rules are different at each airport?

That is the incompetence that is TSA!

As a trainer, evaluator or just working a checkpoint you do have responsibility for these issues.
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