Yeah, that makes it original alright.:rolleyes:

Information.

You can have a stack that high, Ron, but if it's full of garbage it's just a stack of paper. What's been produced is based on bad science and has already been pointed out why that's so. Even the results of the program show a very high false positive rate and what has been found doesn't even fall within the scope of why TSA was founded in the first place.

Much like TSA's layers, if the layers are ineffective and don't do anything, the layers are useless.

We want good security to win, believe it or not. We don't want stupid security to win. Unfortunately, it has been.

Actually Ron, here is what you said.

So I guess you do have a stack of documentation. By all means feel free to post it and provide us with a link so we can confirm it.

He can’t; it’s SSI don’t ‘cha know!

Just like the stack of documentation that I have at my house which shows that my pet rock has stopped untold amounts of terrorists attempting to hijack planes; that is SSI as well.

But since you are are not a trained BDO, you can't tell if the BDO's are being truthful when they talk to you.

:D

;););):D

And since all of these conversations and reports tell you that BDOs have never, ever, ever, ever caught a single solitary person trying to harm an aircraft, exactly why are you persuaded of its effectiveness? Aside from the fact that you're not very bright?

Questioning the TSA faithful is more often than not an exercise in futility -- just look at Kip Hawley. It's an exercise in futility because it all comes down to the faith of the TSA's loyal flock. The words belief and believes tell it all. Faith can get in the way of intelligence and at the TSA that is clearly an issue.

None have been caught because they are too scared. The program has worked.

How's that kool aid tasting?

It's not your BDO's that are scaring terrorists away. It's my magic rock. It keeps terrorists away and cowering in fear. How do I know? Have you seen any terrorists at the airport lately? And BTW, I can't show you the documentation as it's SSI.

Look we are all on the wrong track here.

It is not whether any of these procedures are effective or not, it is just about expanding power and keeping jobs.

Terrorists be damned, just use them as an excuse to keep the money coming, and if we have trample on American's rights no big deal, just keep the (taxpayer's) money coming in.

That's right:

I apologize for missing your post that said it much better than I did.

It's not the spotnik nonsense; that would not deter a terrorist. However, I am prepared to concede that terrorists may have been diverted by the increased airport security and visa restrictions following 9/11 but it is equally possible that that was a one-off, the dernier cri of US mainland attacks. Hard to top that, and the FBI has said there is no evidence of terrorist cells in the US anyway.

And your proof of this is...?

And the reason those scared tewwowists didn't then turn their attention to one of the many, many, many commercial airliners flying the friendly skies every day w/o the 'protection' of the SPOTNIKS is...???

These are the same planes that also have untold amounts of toothpaste & shampoo unfrettered by Kippies brought on board by fully-shod passengers, too, don't forget & yet, despite all these dangers, aren't falling out of the skies around us.

How is that possible???

:rolleyes:

Come on, guys, give him a break. He's got a sense of humor! <where's the tongue in cheek emoticon?>

(unlike Ron) :rolleyes:

:p

^^

No terrorist incidents involving air travel in the U.S since the implementation of the program.....D'oh! :)

Gotta love text.

My bad for falling for it. :D

you hypocrite! shame on you! how dare you not read your own post......hi-ho-hi-ho, it's to the box i go......:D

Nor have there been any terrorist incidents involving air travel in the US since I replanted that pesky patch of lawn in the backyard in 2002. Correlation does not equal causation; you must describe a causal mechanism by which the BDO program, which TSA's own numbers show have never, ever, ever caught a single person wishing to harm aviation, has "scared away all the terrorists."

Oh, wait, you can't do that, because BDO is BS.

D'Oh!

BDO's power?
 

Do BDO's have ANY law enforcement authoritah or do they need to call a LEO?

They have zero law enforcement authority, although they may try to bluff otherwise.

Very few members of the TSA have law enforcement authority. We work closely with our local LEO's because law enforcement is outside of our mandate by congress.

I find it disturbing that some find it fascinating.

Unless they are hoping for a job doing no work at all.

Actually it really does matter and goes to the heart of his credibility on the matter. Clearly he has a financial stake in this and that is important.

I do agree though, I find the science (if you can all it that) fascinating. I've read a number of books on the subject and have attended short seminars on lie detection and I have found it immensely useful. It's really not hard at all to detect "casual liars" using these techniques.

However..It's one thing to detect dishonesty when you are focusing on a single individual in an interview situation or just a focused discussion vs TSA's method.

TSA is taking unskilled labor and giving them a 40 hour training class. Then having them focus on hundreds of people. Furthermore the people we are concerned about are not "casual liars", but "true believers" who have been training for their terrorist activity for years. For TSA, it boils down to if the person is frowning and if they are patting their pockets.

TSA is simply outmatched here. It's not realistic to have a meaningful outcome and so far, TSA's dismal success record proves that out.

Even Congress gets it right occasionally.

One excellent reason for this is because if TSA were law enforcement, whatever legality might inhere in their "administrative search" regime would be substantially degraded, as the administrative search cannot be conducted for the purpose of general law enforcement.

And yet the TSA just loooves to brag about catching celebrities with doobs... far outside the scope of the TSA "administrative search."

I have that rock that repels elephants! See? See? It is working! There are no elephants around!!!!!!!11!!!1!!!1oneone

You know that and I know that ;) but there are many TSO's out there who think and act otherwise :mad:

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I wish it were otherwise, but you have hit a nail on the head.

I'm not really sure why this is so, and it certainly is not all that common, but there do seem to be a few frustrated LEO-wannabe's wearing the TSA uniform. I correct them when I see them, but that is just one TSO to another and I suspect that what I have to say has little effect. :(

Ron for once I complement you^

While I too appreciate your attempt at "correction", if it is done with the same attitude that you sometimes display here, I can see why it is ignored.

Try mentoring, it might work better.....;)

With all respect to everyone in the conversation ... effective mentoring requires that the recipient be willing to receive the mentoring. I suspect that those TSOs who are "frustrated LEO wanna-be's" would be rather unwilling to accept mentoring, even from the most noble source.

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]

So, tell me, has the TSA ever caught an actual terrorist?