These days, it's pretty much 2 words for any TSA employee and those two words are not "happy birthday". Therefore, I keep those two words to myself, providing I'm not provoked outside the checkpoint.

You appear to suggest that those who decline to speak to you have less right to an expeditious transit through the airport than those who do choose to co-operate. As for those of us who have done nothing wrong having "nothing to worry about," somehow I don't think Abdualla Higazy, Maher Arar or Khalid El-Masri would agree, unless you believe that kidapping, torture, being held incommunicado, and refused the opportunity to seek redress are "nothing to worry about". Most of us worry about the DHS every single day, and hope the day comes when it is shut down and all those responsible are put on trial, convicted and imprisoned comes soon.

I have a whole lot of dead relatives who believed that.

I will comply with lawful instructions at the checkpoint. Away from the checkpoint you are just some airport creep who is bugging me. And I do not have to talk to airport creeps.

Those 'several' FTers are wrong. How about this: you ask me questions, I say it's none of your business, you try and hold me, then I demand your manager calls my airline GSC, who then clears me through the checkpoint (with or without your objection), after we speak privately.

I will speak to the GSC, as they represent the owners of the property and equipment I am using, but I am under no obligation to answer TSA questions, nor will I.

Just screen my bag and stop trying to pretend your agency knows what it's doing - a 4hr class to learn behavior profiling is so beyond laughable, it would be like teaching a bunch of 4th graders calculus and physics and expecting them to engineer our next Mars landing.

Not if the airline invests in a locking metal grate to seal the flight deck area off from the rest of the aircraft, and if the pilots land the plane instead of giving in to hijacker demands. A plane that lands safely with a cabin full of dead hostages is better than a plane slammed into a building in my book.

Oh, that and screening all cargo for explosives.

Now, the question still remains...can the BDO lawfully detain someone (either on their own or with law enforcement help) without probable cause that a crime is being or has been committed? Furthermore, if they can, will they be held responsible for all costs that the innocent traveler incurs due to the unplanned detention (non-refundable plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc...)?

Like TSOs, a BDO is not a law enforcement officer, has no arrest powers, and doesn't have the power to detain anyone. The BDO would have to call over a LEO for that.

Only the police can detain someone - the TSA has no legal authority to detain, arrest, touch or tackle anybody. If they attempted to physically restrain you, and you're in a state which gives free reign to protect yourself, you could fight back against them and be able to claim you were acting in self defense.

If they want to hold you, they must call the police. If they can't find the police, you're free to walk away - although you're not necessarily free to walk away into the sterile area.

Your reading assignment for today is: "A Nation of Sheep" by Andrew P. Napolitano as well as Daniel Solov

OK-So the BDO calls over an airport police officer to speak with you because you are being 'uncooperative'. I know that you are required to identify yourself to an LEO; however, can the BDO use the officer to try to compel you to answer their questions upon threat of detention should you refuse to do so? Can the BDO get your personal information from the LEO without your consent and use it without your consent?

I know that may sound ridiculous, but no more so than a total stranger expecting me to engage their questions if I choose not to.

I can't wait for someone to take this to court and challenge it. I'd really love to see a BDO (or rogue LEO) get held financially responsible for a person's ruined travel plans. I don't know about you all, but I often book the non-refundable rooms because they can be quite a bit cheaper.

OK, I understand what you're getting at. I really do. But, isn't the TSA's purpose of an agency to SCREEN us for dangerous items? In the 1990's, nobody seemed to care if you were acting suspiciously at the airport, as long as you were screened. Everyone's different, and what is suspicious to someone may not be suspicious to others. How exactly do you constitute suspicious behavior?

Why is it even TSA's business of why someone is in a bad mood or stressed? Airports are stressful environment--so is travelling. This is not 1984 - this is America. We all have a right to not have to explain ourselves.

Please don't give us that "it's a different world after 9/11" crap... please give us an logical explanation WHY behavioral screening is so important, and how it prevents against a plane being taken down, as long as the person in question doesn't have any dangerous items? And, what does TSA consider suspicious behavior? Nervousness? Tics? People with OCD? People with other disorders or disabilities that doesn't make them look "sheep-like"? And, no, it's not SSI - or at least I hope not. ;)

Guess what, Comrade, I don't have anything to worry about, period. Full stop.

Sure:

SPOT: Anything

Me: "I refuse to speak to a SPOTer. Get a LEO or leave me alone."

Been there, done that, flown without having my name reported to the DOT. Will continue.

...Insert "Das SS" for "the TSO"....hmmm, sounds REAL familiar.....

I haven't even seen a GSC since 2003. And even then, most of them would consult us before clearing anything. I'm not sure that they would, or even have the authority to, clear you during the screening process.

At MSP, the GSCs are from the airlines and don't represent the owners of the property. The airport is own by the Metropolitan Airports Comission.

4 hour class? That's funny. Where did you hear that?

Yes, everyone's different and visual observation can be subjective. That is why we work with, at least, one other BDO. Each time we make an observation, we confer with our partner/s. This protects you and us.

Actually, yes, it is SSI. However, much of the research involved could be found via Google if you are so inclined. Specific behaviors may or may not be found. There is, at least, 50 years worth of research into observing behavior related to deception. When someone fears being discovered in a group, their fear manifest into involuntary, autonomic responses.

Are you suggesting GSC's don't exist because you didn't see one since 2003? They are there - unfortunately, most customers don't know to call them when they get into a conflict with the TSA, otherwise you'd see them there quite often.

Of course the GSC will speak to the TSA supervisor before deciding anything - they're going to listen to both sides of the story. They have the authority to move someone through the checkpoint and clear them to fly, even over the objections of the TSA, but they don't have the authority to clear a prohibited item or get a customer out of being screened.

The owners of the property I'm speaking of are the airlines - I fly on their property, therefore they are the last and only authority to decide if I fly (unless I'm on the no fly list) based on regulations and their assessment of my fitness to fly (sober, non-combative, not-dangerous, suspicious, etc.). However, the Airport Director is also involved, as I use their property too - which is a good point, since there have been cases of the TSA (and cops) attempting to banish customers from the terminal when they lack the authority to do so - only the AD's office can do that. Since you're from Tampa, the recent nazi case is a good example of a the TSA removing a customer from the terminal building without authority to do so, unless the AD's office requested it.

That number has been tossed around everywhere - by media, TSA and insiders alike. Perhaps you'd like to share the amount of SPOT-specific training the TSA has provided you?

My issue is having to take time out of my day to deal with some GS-10/11-equivalent amateur psychologist. Especially one who thinks he/she is highly trained.

"So, where are you traveling to today?"

"I'm sorry, but the prevalence of identity theft precludes me from sharing my plans or identity with wierdos who ask me my plans out of thin air. Good bye."

I'm not a huge fan of newspapers, but this article seems pretty well researched. This author claims it's 4 days of training with some OJT thrown in..

http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=2985

Sorry, maybe it was 4 days and not 4 hours - but there is no practical difference in result. It takes months of intensive multi-disciplinary training to even prep someone for the field training and experience necessary to be reasonably good at behavior detection.

I'm not from Tampa, I'm from MSP (Minneapolis, MN). At MSP, the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) owns the airport. The MAC employs their very own Airport Police Department (APD). The APD has the authority to remove someone from the airport if they feel that they are loitering or have no official business being on their property. The airlines don't have the ultimate say.

I have taken approximately 40-50 hours of initial classroom training, 24 hours of OJT with an experienced trainer (prior to being certified), and spent the first several weeks with an experienced BDO. Since then I have received ongoing classroom training from TSA and other federal and local agency on document recognition and behavior pattern recognition. Along with that, continuous online training and learning from my peers success or mistakes.

I have been doing the job for about a year and feel that I have a well-developed skill. I spend 40 hours a week observing thousands of people, I now have a database of normal behavior and abnormal behavior. I have recognized patterns and can tell you a great deal about someone prior to engaging them in conversation. I learn something new everyday and continue to develop my skills.

Everyone gets stuck on "micro-expressions". They are more readily identifiable behavioral cues (you could call them "macro-expressions").

I don't consider myself an amateur psychologist. However, I have a degree in Psychology and I have spent thousands of hours in an airport. By now, even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right.

Sorry, I saw the letters tpa and for some reason assumed you were in Tampa. Ah yes - the (in)famous MSP police department. We have plenty of anecdotes about their behavior in and out of the bathroom, including some often violent behavior on the part of a couple of their members. In the case of MSP, I can assume the AD's office has given the airport police wide latitude to act on their behalf - and that might include removing people from the terminal.

I never said the airlines have the final say over who is in the airport - they do have the final say about who flies on their aircraft. If someone is removed from the terminal, there is little they can do about it.

This is all good, but it's only a starting point. Your bosses spin this training and experience level as if SPOT checkers are experts in this practice and on par with their peers at say, El Al. I'm sure we can agree this is not the case.

I used this same line to get out of jury duty. If that didn't work, I was going to throw out that I could tell if they were guilty just by looking at them!

I never expected to get this far from the OP, is a new thread called for? If so, what should it be titled?

Anyway, yes I agree that it is not equivalent to El Al. However, I also think Israelis give up way more civil liberties than we do, as Americans. Basically, it can considered a scaled-down version of their model. We don't employ racial or ethnic profiling.

Since it is relatively new in the U.S., it is tough to consider anyone a true expert. I do know people, however, that are very good at it. With time I think you will find that it will be true asset to aviation security. Machines and technology are great, but they can't replace human intuition and experience.

Next time you quote me, would you please include the statement before the comma and not take my statement out of context?

Sorry, but anyone who is the least bit aware of his/her surroundings can tell you if something or some one is a bit "off", but does that require SPOTting? I don't think so.

Did no one else catch this Worthy of the Kipster sound bite?

No.

The entire statement is not what I said. But I did edit the post for you.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Are you saying you (or someone who trained you) are the final arbiter of what is normal and what is abby-normal?

And there are many people on this board who will say they can tell us a great deal about someone (especially someone in a TSA uniform) prior to engaging them in conversation.

Confidence and pomposity are not synonyms.

I didn't say that it did require "SPOTting". In fact, I stated that "even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right."

I am "confident" of my abilities. I have studied abnormal behavior in college, have worked in a prison (where abnormal behavior is prevalent), have been trained to readily recognize it by the TSA, and have seen more than my fair share working at the airport. I consider myself well-qualified to determine what is abnormal. However, I don't individual have the final say. As I have said, I consult with my BDO partner/s to gain their perspective on each situation.

People always like to think that they can. ;)

I think everyone in the country needs to take this training. We'd have a fun time psyching each other out. The only reason this stuff might work is because everyone doesn't know how to do it.

So what happens here?

As it turns out, right now I am under a significant amount of job-related stress. Believe me -- I'm stressed! However, even when I'm not stressed, I'm sufficiently misanthropic that I don't like to be crowded in with a bunch of strangers, whether in the club room, on the concourse, or on board. I am not, in the least, inclined to make light conversation with a stranger who walks up to me. Quite the contrary, I will try to shut down the interaction as quickly, albeit politely, as possible.

Will you have the courtesy to identify yourself as a TSA BDO, so I can tell you, politely but firmly, to leave me alone (I almost wrote something else)? Will you require that I speak with you? Under what authority?

Are you going to delay me? Call over a LEO? Call the airline's GSC?



So . . . what?

"Hi, you look nervous...and semi-agitated..."
"Get lost.."
"Seriously, why are you so nervous..."
"I said get lost ... go climb a tree...pound sand...get life"

Since every conversation with a SPOT will be similar to the above...why waste your time?

Wow. Given enough money to lose, I could teach you all that at the poker room at the Wynn, and you would still not even begin to scratch the surface of how trained, experienced professionals do it.

Like, I said: "Run, SPOT, run." Or get the actual cops. Pacino said it best in the movie "Heat"--"Don't waste my MF time."

Your agency gets away with the psycho-babble-father-BS because most people don't understand how stupid it is and lack the conviction to deal with it. Fortunately, that's not (yet) universally true.

Don't worry, I don't hide my contempt for you and your komrads.

I had confidence in a fart, once. Then I crapped my pants! :p :D

That might be one of my favorite all time responses on FT!!!!


Going back to the earlier argument about people speaking a foreign language and who will deal with them, as a professional interpreter, I would hope that an actual interpreter would help out in a tough situation. I have seen so many screw ups from people who "spoke some german" or who's grandmother was from Mexico and though they spoke spanish. Also if it is a Deaf person like Andy, then you HAVE to get a certified interpreter if they ask for it. If not, then they will probably will sue and they will in.

Oh. My. God.

My poor keyboard........