I agree that bags and such should be searched for bombs and such but over the last few months I started to think about guns and if they should honestly be prohibited. I'm not trying to start a huge fight here but It's something that has started to interest me.

A FT'er many topics ago said that he/she feels that a xray or WTMD doesn't fit into the 4th amendment because it isn't a unreasonable search. I agree with that but of course many people have different views on it.

And Spiff,

For the oh stop comment, I would rather not. I'm taking this topic completely off of it's orginal intent because it always leads to a argument and decided that I would throw this idea of mine into the mix which I had been having the last few months.

To me it's a interesting idea and thought some input would be nice I guess.

It's interesting that you mention that. As we've heard in another thread, airport concessions workers are subject to the less invasive procedures I"m talking about. It seems concessions workers or TSA employees coming to work are not subject to shoe removal, secondary, or SSSS wanding. So you're already "not checking things like that". Since the chain can't be stronger than its weakest link (i.e. bad guys will just take a job with airport concessions if that's the easiest search available, and there are some people who aren't even given that thorough a search!) there is really no value in subjecting passengers only to an excessively invasive search.

Actually, I don't think very many frequent flyers think of the TSA as providing any security value at all. We understand that your presence is more about making people feel better about flying than making flying safer. That's fine, but given that the TSA has not had a good record of actually finding weapons, there's no need to go overboard and put passengers at risk of intentional or unintentional inappropriate contact.

Start a new thread next time
 

Like I said, either of these two solutions is acceptable to me:

1)Guns for all

2)Guns for none - no exceptions

Well, if it's a regular, law-abiding citizen, then nobody cares.

But if it's a terrorist, then I suspect the persons that get stabbed with the scissors might be a little unhappy.

True, it's more difficult to penetrate the cockpit nowdays. But who says that terrorists have to penetrate the cockpit to accomplish their objectives? Stabbing dozens of passengers (in a confined metal tube with no avenue for exit, unless a jump from 30,000 feet sans parachute is your idea of a good time) would also probably have a terror effect. And holding passengers hostage with an imminent threat of death gives the terrorists the possibility, however remote, of leveraging the cockpit crew into opening the last barrier to even greater disaster.

No one is going to stand by and get stabbed or let their fellow passengers get stabbed. Those days are over.

Anyone stupid enough to stab someone on a plane is going to be subdued, if lucky, or killed in very short order.

Any terrorist scenario involving scissors or another sharp or pointy object will go down exactly the same if one uses one of the many items already on board that are sharp or pointly. Therefore, it's extremely stupid to waste resources hunting for and confiscating non-credible items like scissors.

As I've said many times, the only credible threat to aircraft safely is a bomb, and currently a suicide bomber could walk onto a plane and blow it up quite easily (hiding the bomb in body cavaties, etc.). If I were running security screening, pax would walk through the bomb detectors they are using in the tests for train security, metal detectors (guns and huge knives don't really scare me but I think that, like before 9/11, it makes sense to keep them off of planes) and carry on luggage would go through bomb detectors and x-ray screening for guns and big knives. Pre-9/11 screening plus non-invasive bomb screening is all we need to keep the skys safe and would not be invasive or offensive to pax.

That's right. If a terrorist really wants to attack people with scissors, why not go to the nearest mall? Or elementary school? You could stab lots of people and maybe even get away to do it again tomorrow. That's not going to be possible on a plane. If the passengers don't kill you -- and that's quite likely! -- you will be arrested when the plane lands. You will never never never take over the plane with anything less than a welder's torch and heavy weapons.

Bruce

What makes you think that there currently aren't guns on aircraft? Given what security is today, I'll bet you there still are. Further, I'll bet you that before the TSA there were more guns on aircraft than you imagine, most of them taken on mistakenly, and nearly all of them perfectly safe because their owners had no malicious intent.

We can choose to see the world as it should be or as it is.

and claymores and RPGs :rolleyes:

No, we're talking about guns. So, you think the TSA is 100% effective, eh? I guess that's what keeps you going to work in the morning. Me? I know that 100% is rarely attainable in life. I'd bet that the odd gun still makes it on a flight, perhaps because people don't often leave them in their shoes :D