tazi

You are the only extremist I have seen around here Brian. Most of the rest of us have been able to discuss these issues. Unfortuantely, your mind is so closed to anything other than what you believe, the most you can come up with anymore is these ridiculous attempts at trying to disrupt security related discussions.

RS, I feel several of the most recent representatives from the TSA have been very polite and I have no problem with their attitudes. Some of the very first to show up though, leave much to be desired.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Brian

I have no proof whatsoever, other than about 200 posts bashing TSA employees (or putative ones) whenever they opened their mouths, including two attempts to have them disciplined or fired from their jobs. This is, of ocurse, in addition to calling them nazis, jackbooted thugs, and morons. These are all available to anyone making a cursory search of the threads.

I cannot prove any connection between the two, but common sense suggests one, if you really review the threads.

Tazi, I have asked you to stop following around my posts, and calling me names. I have done so politely. Post an email address, if you wish to share your opinions with me. Thank you.

tazi

I am not following your posts or calling you names. On the contrary, that is exactly what you are doing. If you want to come into threads, with no other purpose than to insult those who have opinions that differ from you, call them extremists and other such names, I will contiinue to respond in like. If you don't like it, then I suggest you go and find discussions you are interested in and perhaps have something to offer.

I have no desire to communicate with you through email and feel no need to do so. I explained in another thread why my email address is not viewable here and am not going to again.


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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Brian

We now return you all to the topic at hand.

Has anyone else had any similar contacts from the TSA at the employment level that tends to verify what was said here?

Just Passing Thru

Brian, I understand that you believe there are strong indications that support your contention, but considering that you frequently post "facts, not feelings" in response to other posters, I think you might consider following the course of action you advocate for others.

I have no gripe with your standard, but I think you apply it inequitably.

Brian

I am intellectually honest in labeling the difference between my opinions and facts... and when my opinions are based on facts. I do not muddle them together in a great slushy puddle, which is epidemic. I don't think that taking two sentences from a couple of posts, and ignoring everything else I wrote is really all that equitable either, but what the hey?

I have never, ever debated the right of a person to have or express an opinion, whether it is one shared or deeply opposed by me.

What gets my hackles up is when people represent their opinions as facts, as if by assuming a moral imperative of unassailable "rightness" they can terminate the debate.

It is most typically encountered in debaters of limited experience, for the same reason that inexperienced boxers try to make every punch a knockout, and in so doing, expose their soft belly. They are simply afraid that if they don't knock their opponent out, they will be knocked out instead.

They haven't the patience of experience.

Thank you for the opportunity to further explain my views.

[This message has been edited by Brian (edited 02-17-2003).]

Just Passing Thru

I disagree. You appear to have presented this opinion as fact:

I don't see how you can characterize it as anything else.

The fact of the matter is that you have no proof to support your claim, and anything else is window-dressing and obfuscation. BTW, Brian, I am treating you no differently than you have treated others.

That's hardly the point, since no one here has questioned your right to have an opinion. The issue appears to be that you apply your "facts, not feelings" standard inequitably. When you present your own opinion as fact, it's quite glaringly evident. Sauce for the gander, Brian.

I, too, find that upsetting, but that doesn't occasion using that method yourself.

You're welcome. And thank you for the same opportunity.

And do note that Tazi wasn't "following you around," since she had posted to this thread before you did.

Brian

Just, I will make the same offer to you that I have made to Tazi, many times... if you find my logic so unpalatable, and my ideas so distasteful, just ignore me. I prefer to debate ideas, rather than personalities... this seems an elusive trait to some.

These line by line dissections trying to "prove" what I said or didn't say come from people with more time on their hands than I have.

I say what I mean, I mean what I say. If that is too hard to deal with, please debate elsewhere. If you would like to spend some time debating the difference between fact and opinion, I am up for that too, but in email. I am sure everyone else would be yawning at the thought.

tazi

I yawn just having to wade through the mindless drivel and hypocrisies you post, Brian. You possess no logic and it is very hard to even find a standard because, as JPT and many others have pointed out, you don't even follow what you endlessly preach to others.

This is a forum for discussion and if you want to post things that are insulting to others and their opinions, you should expect those others to speak up and not be quiet about it just because you ask them to.

As I have stated many times recently, anything I have to say in response to you will be said here. I have no desire to have you, or your words infect my email.


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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Brian

Well, at least you don't seem to be taking it personally.

Seems like the point of this conversation disappeared long ago, and has been replaced by.... I am not sure what.

[This message has been edited by Brian (edited 02-19-2003).]

Just Passing Thru

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I may have to do just that.

Yes, and debating "facts, not feelings" seems just as elusive to others.

Ah, yes, the "your posts don't count" angle. As old as the Internet, it is.

The fact of the matter, Brian, is that you have absolutely no factual evidence to support your claim. Anything else you have to say on the matter is pure conjecture. You don't even know for a fact if the posters you reference really do work for the TSA.

Which is precisely what I had hoped for. Thanks for backing me up on the "got no evidence" thing, Brian.

Brian, as the thread originator, I'd like to observe that this wasn't a debate until you came in here -- it was a discussion. Your comment about righteous TSA indignance, coupled with your inane claim that Tazi was following you around (when she had already posted to this thread ahead of you), turned that around in a hurry.

Everyone else was having a polite discussion until you dropped by.

Now which is easier to believe -- that everyone but you is somehow derailing the discussion?

Or that it's just you?

I see no need to go to e-mail, as you've already admitted that you have no evidence to support your claim.

tazi

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 02-20-2003).]

Savvy Traveler

Tazi is a she?

Those women who are concerned with civil liberties are just... dangerous

I wish I knew more of them!

tazi

Yes, Tazi is a she



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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Brian

My sole comment on this thread was that TSA posters on this board have been attacked and callled names based solely on their employer, including attempts to have them terminated or disciplined. That was in response to a post on this thread by RS assertsing bad attitude by TSA employees posting on this board, and as such, was completely in line with the conversation. Those are... facts.

All of the garbage talk about me that has originated from that fact is... well, garbage, and I have asked it to stop. You will note that I have not replied in kind, which is another fact. I have been tempted.

Now comes my opinion, which is that some posters on FT have no tools to debate these topics with me that do not resort to changing the topic of conversation to the way I write, and if that fails, calling me names. A hallmark of extremism, and this is a fact, is shouting down opposing viewpoints so that they cannot be heard. It is my opinion that this is being done by several posters on this board.

I am experimenting with different techniques to deal with this, to see what works and what doesn't. It is an effective skill set for my professional life, as well.

If I am too frustrating to deal with, just don't. You won't hurt my feelings. I will comment on what I believe, and you do the same. Spiff and I, for example, have 180 degree opposing beliefs, but we have no "flames" or "fights" because we challenge each other's views, instead of personalizing it.

If you note, I am not personalizing any of these conversations. Someone else always elects to make that choice. Not my choice, not my issue, not my problem.

As a final note, and as I have said before, I enjoy debating issues of importance. But I do insist on certain rules of debate, which includes seperating facts from feelings, so that the observer can accurately draw their own conclusion. I remain available to do that with anyone, on any topic.

Thank you.