1.5 million on the no-fly list?!

Old Jan 22, 23, 8:21 pm
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1.5 million on the no-fly list?!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...-kitten-hacker

Do they just go nuts, or is this a whole bunch of aliases?
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Old Jan 22, 23, 9:39 pm
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The article says there are a lot of aliases, and the number of unique individuals on the list is much smaller than the 1.5 million total.

Still, considering that the no-fly list is not something you need to be convicted of a crime to get onto, even if it's only three quarters of a million or half a million people long, that seems a bit excessive in a free society.
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Old Jan 22, 23, 11:03 pm
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The list is from 2019 and it was found on an airline's server.

From Rolling Stone:

Hacktivist Discovered U.S. No Fly List on Unsecured Airline Server
A COPY OF the No Fly List from 2019 has leaked, uncovered by a Swiss cybersecurity researcher and hacktivist who claims to have discovered it on an unsecured internet server belonging to an airline.

***
The No Fly List contains names/aliases and birthdates of individuals who are known or suspected to be terrorists... The list included known Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout along with 16 possible aliases for him, crimew said. While the list contained names from a range of backgrounds, including suspected members of the IRA, an Irish paramilitary organization, many names appeared to be of Arabic or Middle Eastern descent, according to crimew.

***
In a
statement to CNN, CommuteAir said that the data on the server contained “an outdated 2019 version of the federal no-fly list” with names and birth dates. The airline said it has taken the server offline after being contacted by a “member of the security research community.”

***
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Old Jan 23, 23, 12:47 am
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...-kitten-hacker

Do they just go nuts, or is this a whole bunch of aliases?
The vast plurality of names on the list are Arabic names — inclusive of names that are traditionally written in Arabic alphabets in Muslim-majority communities —and then Slavic names. In both linguistic groups, naming conventions often involve name references that can be considered to be aliases or a mix of aliases to some degree or another and there is the transliteration issue into English/Roman alphabet that mean a bunch of blacklisted individuals have multiple name identifiers on the list. It also means that there are women hit by the blacklist because of blacklisted men’s names on the list. There is also the Soundex-type driver that leads to such issues.

The hacker involved in the leak has claimed to have been subject to a US grand jury indictment for hacking done by said activist community hacker — who claims to be non-CIS and non-binary — during the 2019-2021 period.
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Old Jan 23, 23, 2:31 pm
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Here’s the Wikipedia piece on the person attributed for having put out the list noted in the news articles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_arson_crimew
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Old Jan 23, 23, 3:11 pm
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A reminder that the carceral state in America houses 2.3m people alone.
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Old Jan 24, 23, 2:00 pm
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There's also no method of pruning a list like this of individuals who have died, so it is likely to grow ad infinitum.
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Old Jan 25, 23, 1:59 am
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The selectee/watch list — the one that results in haraSSSSment flagging/screening — was also accessible there. And the Swiss activist hacker found the list to include in the range of a quarter million entries. The selectee/watchlist remains significantly more diverse demographically than the no-fly list.
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Old Jan 25, 23, 5:52 pm
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I talked with some TSA folks about the list. The 1.5m is largely due to "aliases" and alternative spellings of names as noted by GUW. Just one person on there had 16 entries; if the average was actually around 10 aliases per person that puts the list around 150,000. Which is still way too much but also contains names of many people that are not in the US or would likely not ever be admitted to the US if they made it here in normal travel circumstances (as opposed to, say, being smuggled in by boat or sneaking across a border).

While this is "splashy" news - it is amazing to me that the list is not more out in the public because it is not at all classified in terms of Confidential, Secret or TS. In fact, it cant be due to the nature of what it is AND the vast number of people in the aviation industry that must have access to it to accomplish the task of not letting these folks on a plane. It is considered SSI which better explains why it hasnt been in the public more. One must accept that many of the true bad guys who are/would be threats to aviation have already been told they are on the list by sympathetic aviation or intelligence/security employees.

Of course, with hardened cockpit doors and if screening for WEI is effective then why do we even need this list in the first place....?
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Old Jan 26, 23, 11:36 am
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I generally favor and approve of having a NFL but some controls need to be put in place. Once a name is nominated for inclusion a process to confirm/deny inclusion should take place within X days/weeks but short of 3 months. If satisfactory evidence isn't provided then the name + aliases are dropped. A method to cull the list at regular intervals should be mandated.
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Old Jan 27, 23, 7:28 am
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Since it now appears more publicly that the USG blacklists could be leaked to the public because of the relevant blacklists being distributed to airlines and security contractors for facilitation of USG enforcement efforts, will the USG response to these lists getting out be to have the TSA and CBP shift to relying even more upon real-time ID/manifest checks and having even more demands for information transfers and controls on airlines?
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Old Jan 27, 23, 11:11 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Since it now appears more publicly that the USG blacklists could be leaked to the public because of the relevant blacklists being distributed to airlines and security contractors for facilitation of USG enforcement efforts, will the USG response to these lists getting out be to have the TSA and CBP shift to relying even more upon real-time ID/manifest checks and having even more demands for information transfers and controls on airlines?
just my minimally informed opinion: I believe that has been happening and the direction of how it will continue to go.
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Old Jan 27, 23, 7:36 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Since it now appears more publicly that the USG blacklists could be leaked to the public because of the relevant blacklists being distributed to airlines and security contractors for facilitation of USG enforcement efforts, will the USG response to these lists getting out be to have the TSA and CBP shift to relying even more upon real-time ID/manifest checks and having even more demands for information transfers and controls on airlines?
This is the US government you're taking about. Their first and greatest priority will be revenge - they'll increase penalties on covered persons who leak SSI, whether deliberately or accidentally, and make every effort to retroactively apply the harshest penalties on anyone who's ever leaked SSI in the past.

After that, they'll expand the definition of 'covered person' as wide as they possibly can, so that anyone who disseminates, possesses, or even views SSI can be punished. Media, pundits, anyone who works for a state or local government in any capacity including contractors/consultants... Heck, they'll lock up the Uber driver who picks someone up at an airport if they're ever caught in possession or even having read SSI. They'll push it as far as they can until they're stopped by the courts.

After that, then maybe they'll address some shortcomings in the no fly and watch lists and the procedures for getting on them and being checked against them.
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Old Jan 28, 23, 7:36 am
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Originally Posted by Section 107 View Post
just my minimally informed opinion: I believe that has been happening and the direction of how it will continue to go.
On the same page, which is why I did say "even more".
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