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Would you fly with minimal to no security?

Would you fly with minimal to no security?

Old Sep 13, 22, 2:52 pm
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Would you fly with minimal to no security?

Would you feel safe or comfortable flying with little to no security at the airport? I recently flew on a small charter flight and it was nice being able to walk out of my car and right up to the plane without any TSA BS.

Considering cockpit doors remain locked during the flight, I feel perfectly safe with only minor security on commercial flights. Maybe a simple metal detector person scan and x-ray checked bags for guns and bombs is all we need. All of the regulations about liquids, scanning shoes, and laptops coming out of bags seem totally pointless. The only reason I wouldn't be for the total elimination of airport security is because I just know someone would accidentally bring a gun on a plane and it would end up going off or they would end up in a foreign country.
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Old Sep 13, 22, 3:13 pm
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Even ten years ago, there were some scheduled domestic New Zealand flights that required no passenger security screening. If or when that has been discontinued, not sure. But it didn’t scare me and still wouldn’t.
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Old Sep 13, 22, 4:04 pm
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I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB back in the late 70s-early 80s. We were constantly flying commuter planes back & forth to LA and San Jose. I recall that there was no security for intrastate flights. There may have been distance constraints or aircraft size limitations; I don't remember. As a matter of fact, at LAX, there was a small, dingy and smoky "Commuter Terminal" where the Bradley Terminal is located today. There was no security at the Santa Maria airport (SMX) except for a single gate. If your commuter flight parked at a regular gate & terminal, you had to go through security just to enter the terminal airside.
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Old Sep 14, 22, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by poisson View Post
Would you feel safe or comfortable flying with little to no security at the airport? I recently flew on a small charter flight and it was nice being able to walk out of my car and right up to the plane without any TSA BS.

Considering cockpit doors remain locked during the flight, I feel perfectly safe with only minor security on commercial flights. Maybe a simple metal detector person scan and x-ray checked bags for guns and bombs is all we need. All of the regulations about liquids, scanning shoes, and laptops coming out of bags seem totally pointless. The only reason I wouldn't be for the total elimination of airport security is because I just know someone would accidentally bring a gun on a plane and it would end up going off or they would end up in a foreign country.
There's minimal to no aviation security now. It would totally rock if they stopped all the cosplay they're doing.
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Old Sep 14, 22, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Carl Johnson View Post
There's minimal to no aviation security now. It would totally rock if they stopped all the cosplay they're doing.
The first sentence is opinion and very from removed from fact (irregardless [sic] of public perception). But the second second sentence is truth!
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Old Sep 14, 22, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Even ten years ago, there were some scheduled domestic New Zealand flights that required no passenger security screening. If or when that has been discontinued, not sure. But it didnt scare me and still wouldnt.
this still happens and in Australia
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Old Sep 14, 22, 3:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Section 107 View Post
The first sentence is opinion and very from removed from fact (irregardless [sic] of public perception). But the second second sentence is truth!
It’s not that difficult for a reasonably intelligent and well-resourced person to manage to land their hands on restricted WEIs airside despite the TSA dog and pony show at the passenger screening checkpoints. I’m pretty sure that even some 5 year old kids could be trained to smuggle in the same airside if someone competent and resourceful cared to facilitate such activity.

If the TSA wants to provide me and one of my preferred acquaintances with a WEI penetration testing contract and deliver to me a financial reward of $50k per airport into which the contracted, immunized testers document successfully getting their hands on a restricted gun airside, how much money do you think the TSA would have to pay up?
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Old Sep 15, 22, 3:20 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
It’s not that difficult for a reasonably intelligent and well-resourced person to manage to land their hands on restricted WEIs airside despite the TSA dog and pony show at the passenger screening checkpoints. I’m pretty sure that even some 5 year old kids could be trained to smuggle in the same airside if someone competent and resourceful cared to facilitate such activity.

If the TSA wants to provide me and one of my preferred acquaintances with a WEI penetration testing contract and deliver to me a financial reward of $50k per airport into which the contracted, immunized testers document successfully getting their hands on a restricted gun airside, how much money do you think the TSA would have to pay up?
Agreed, no, it's not. BUT it is not correct to say there is no security. And 5yo is stretching it a bit.... most adults can't get WEI through the checkpoints.

But, to the more fun question - how much could you make? Anywhere from $22m (assuming getting a firearm airside at each of the 440 TSA regulated airports) to ~$650k (assuming a 50% success rate at getting a firearm airside at the ~26 Cat X airports).

There are roughly 20,000 registered airfields in the US, about 5,000 of those are public use. Of the 5,000, there are ~3,300 are in the national integrated airport plan (https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/npias) of which a little over 500 are Part 139 certified. Of the Part 139 airports, about 440 are regulated by TSA, and about I think about 20 of those are (still) secured by contractors. Let's assume the contractors are better than the TSA, so we are down to ~420. TSA breaks down those airports into 5 security categories primarily based on number of enplanements (Cat X, I II, III, and IV). So, lets stick with the Cat X airports which are perceived to have the highest risk of being targeted and have the greater probability of prohibited items getting into the sterile area and/or AOA by sheer volume of people. I believe there are still 25-27 such designated airports. At $50k per successful pen test - which I think would be about 50%, you would be able to afford a lot of F seats.....

My assumption is that we are not limiting the pen tests to the PSCs. If limited to the PSCs then the success rate would be much lower.

I would like a companion ticket....
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Old Sep 16, 22, 3:42 am
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50%? “Ye of (such) little faith……. “ Surely, we remember that a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link. And once airside inside the network of US airports used by the US legacy majors, it’s pretty much open grounds for a restricted firearm to make the way around such US airport network if flight scheduling is competently managed — especially when the chances of a deplaning PreCheck passenger being hit by an airside search at TSA-“secured” airports are well below 1%.

Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 16, 22 at 5:33 am
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Old Sep 16, 22, 8:40 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
50%? Ye of (such) little faith. Surely, we remember that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And once airside inside the network of US airports used by the US legacy majors, its pretty much open grounds for a restricted firearm to make the way around such US airport network if flight scheduling is competently managed especially when the chances of a deplaning PreCheck passenger being hit by an airside search at TSA-secured airports are well below 1%.
True, finding one good (or "bad" as it were) insider airport worker boyfriend/girlfriend/family member anywhere in the chain (say, at a non-hub) could get a bucketful of WEI into the system and indeed, it's off to the races....
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Old Sep 16, 22, 11:01 am
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Originally Posted by Section 107 View Post
True, finding one good (or "bad" as it were) insider airport worker boyfriend/girlfriend/family member anywhere in the chain (say, at a non-hub) could get a bucketful of WEI into the system and indeed, it's off to the races....
Even if eliminating the idea of exploitation of "insider airport worker", there are other weak links that can be exploited to run up the reward money without dependency on corruption of any airport workers.
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Old Sep 16, 22, 9:30 pm
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Minimal security yes. No security no. By minimal I mean carry-on/cabin bags go through x-ray and everyone goes through the WTMD. Alarms are resolved by HHMDs.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 12:42 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB back in the late 70s-early 80s. We were constantly flying commuter planes back & forth to LA and San Jose. I recall that there was no security for intrastate flights. There may have been distance constraints or aircraft size limitations; I don't remember.
Flying out of SJC in 1972 there was no security for a transcon. I have a vague memory the first metal detectors went in after a major hijacking, but I don't remember exactly which one.

In the US we've reached a point with gun mania that no, I would not want to fly with no security at all.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 3:28 am
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler View Post
Flying out of SJC in 1972 there was no security for a transcon. I have a vague memory the first metal detectors went in after a major hijacking, but I don't remember exactly which one.

In the US we've reached a point with gun mania that no, I would not want to fly with no security at all.
In either late 1973 or in 1974, passenger security screening became the implemented federal law across the US for flights subject to relevant US federal jurisdiction. Some US airports/airlines started with passenger security screening before it was legally required.

There were 40 hijackings in the US in 1969. Out of something like 90 worldwide in the same year.
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Old Sep 22, 22, 11:34 am
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Originally Posted by poisson View Post
Would you feel safe or comfortable flying with little to no security at the airport? I recently flew on a small charter flight and it was nice being able to walk out of my car and right up to the plane without any TSA BS.

Considering cockpit doors remain locked during the flight, I feel perfectly safe with only minor security on commercial flights. Maybe a simple metal detector person scan and x-ray checked bags for guns and bombs is all we need. All of the regulations about liquids, scanning shoes, and laptops coming out of bags seem totally pointless. The only reason I wouldn't be for the total elimination of airport security is because I just know someone would accidentally bring a gun on a plane and it would end up going off or they would end up in a foreign country.
Your entire question is predicated on the concept of passenger screening, as opposed to overall security.

Would you be okay with minimal passenger screening, AND reduced security of the airfield itself? Of the behind-the-scenes areas of an airport terminal? Of the food preparation facilities that create in-flight foods and beverages? Of the maintenance facilities that change the oil and air up the tires of the aircraft? Of the air traffic control centers that direct aircraft in flight?

Most people think the word 'security' applies strictly to passengers, but considering the huge number of people who do a bewildering number of jobs to keep planes operational, direct them where to go both on the ground and in the air, and get food, water, and toilet paper into an airfield and onto a plane, passengers are really just the tip of a titanic iceberg.

And then there's cargo... and general aviation...

Minimal to no security? No way. Less draconian passenger screening than we have now? Absolutely.
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