GUWonder

DHS/CBP manages to still accept, process and approve GE applications for those who have no domestic state government-issued photo ID; and DHS/CBP have even done so previously for NY residents who have no state issued ID.

If DHS/CBP wanted proof of residential address from recipients, state-government issued ID from a state DMV isn’t the only way to research and/or document residence. And yet the federal government is on this kick ad kicking out applicants resident in NY, without even allowing such persons to provide other proof of residential address that doesn’t have anything to do with this federal government “manage the message” effort using NY (but probably aimed to hit elsewhere too to spread).

joe_miami

Non sequitur.

It�s been years since my initial GE app, but I believe DHS did, in fact, want proof of current address.

Regardless, you�re back to arguing CBP should have to run around to libraries and whatnot to get info every other state provides digitally. Not very compelling.

GE is a privilege, not a right. It�s fairly absurd to argue that DHS should have to scramble and scrape in order to grant or not grant that privilege.

GUWonder

Proof of residential address for GE applicants can be handled without the use of domestic state government-issued photo ID in the applicant’s name; and DHS/CBP has even done so previously for NY residents who had no domestic state government- issued ID. It’s just that now DHS/CBP wants to use NY state government issuer of ID as the excuse to go after NY and is using GE applicants and prospective applicants as pawns and cannon fodder to go against a state law that the federal government doesn’t like.

joe_miami

You keep saying the same thing over and over without addressing the points made. ID and address verification aside, common sense tells us, e.g., CBP officers sitting in a booth at the U.S.-Canada border are going to want (and often need) registration and ownership info for vehicles with New York plates. Are they supposed to get that info from the local library, too?

Beltway2A

Buzzfeed has obtained DHS internal memoranda, it appears the decision to end GE enrollment in NY was the fifth of several options presented to Department heads.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ords-sanctuary

phltraveler

Not sure if it's been posted yet but the NYS Complaint against the feds over this. New York's lawsuit argues that it makes NY less safe to not have the trusted traveler program and that it's retribution. Also the docket as of right now.

I'm not quite sure if this matches reality, however per this article. Per the article:

1. New Jersey has a law they signed similar to New York's as of December 2019, effective Jan 1 2021 - the law is similar in allowing undocumented licenses and restricting DMV information to not be released without a court order - once in effect, the same restriction could easily hit NJ.
2. Virginia has a law that's similar (undocumented licenses + DMV data not released without court order) but it isn't even passed, much less in effect.
3. California's law didn't restrict data until an amendment on Jan 1st that limits the data to criminal history (not including legal immigration status) and further limits take place in 2021 where agencies that want data will need to specify a proper purpose (but not blanket prohibiting federal agencies from getting data).

CBP's point of view:

Now, on to the NLETS data - the NLETS data doesn't just have validity at Point of Entry scenarios, but in building up the ability to make queries to NCIC and other databases more valuable. Per troopers.ny.gov :

Now on some other points:

CBP complained about this when it happened in December, although the action was delayed. CBP was previously able to use NLETS to query that information (even if the drivers license was not used as proof) to query the state DMV for drivers license information & driver history, or confirm a no record found if the person did not have an NYS Drivers License/Nondriver ID (no record found). Now they cannot. They also cannot validate that even if a license is presented, that it is valid (not suspended, not reported lost/stolen).

GE and other TTP members in NY may be a playing piece on the board in a political game, but there are valid points for ongoing GE/TTP membership to check the validity of any drivers license offered (and the driver history) plus confirm a non-existence for applicants who don't use a drivers license to apply but present other proof of NYS residence.

rustykettel

If that were truly the case then NY plated vehicles would be prohibited from entering (or leaving) the country period, and really doesn't have much to do with TTP enrollment. The only one that links a vehicle to a TTP program is SENTRI, and that only if you want to use that vehicle to cross the border if I recall correctly. Foot crossing does not require a registered vehicle and neither GE nor Nexus are linked to a specific vehicle.

joe_miami

Maybe I missed a concession in there somewhere, but the lawsuit seems to demand that DHS somehow continue to operate SENTRI for New Yorkers without having access to the DMV info DHS needs to enroll and subsequently verify New York-registered vehicles. Bizarre.

rustykettel

If CBP is not able to check the validity of a document, then it should simply require alternative documents to establish identity/residency, just like it does when someone doesn't present a driver's license. There is no requirement to present a driver's license when applying for GE or Nexus. Why do they need to confirm a NY driver's license doesn't exist only for current NY residents?

Again, if the issue is without access to NY DMV records, they're not able to check on a current NY resident, the same think applies to past NY residents or people who potentially could be past NY residents or were involved in a vehicular incident in NY (which is pretty much everyone else) yet only current NY residents are banned.

joe_miami

This is like arguing that, since an occasional person gets caught with a fake passport, no one should be allowed to enter or exit the country.

How is DHS supposed to enroll automobiles with N.Y. plates in SENTRI without access to NYS DMV info? And yet, New York's lawsuit seems to be demanding that DHS do just that.

rustykettel

It's not arguing that. It's responding to your previous argument:


NY's lawsuit is presenting broad claims and relief, which is different from addressing the claims that DHS is making.

If it's solely a SENTRI issue, then GE and Nexus should be unaffected and should be limited to being unable to register a vehicle with SENTRI. Yet CBP is blanket banning all current N.Y. residents from all three programs.

phltraveler

To determine if the applicant presents a low risk in terms of being deemed a trusted traveler?

NLETS allows CBP to query all 50 states (well, 49 now with NY's cutoff) + Canada & Mexico for the existence of drivers licenses/non-driver IDs, and to then query for vehicle/boat/snowmobile ownership based off that + see the driver's history, including interactions that may appear on the driver's history but not result in an arrest to make a risk determination.

At least for commercial drivers, CDLIS requires the transfer of data when the CDL holder moves, all convictions/withdrawals and other driver history gets transferred for the new state. So once the person with CDL moves out from NYS, the history follows them. NLETS allows this data to be freely queried so even if the CDL was not used for the application/program it can be found on the individuals information submitted with the application. CLDIS operates in all 50 States + DC. Now if they're in NY, it's a black box, when they move out of NYS then the data follows them to the other state's DMV where it can be queried.

For non-commercial drivers, NLETS would let CBP check in other states if the person has a suspended or revoked license at the time of application & membership outside of NYS; when applying for a drivers license in a non-New York state [transferring from New York], the Problem Driver Pointer System allows the new residence state's DMV to clear the driver as having a valid license (PDPS returns specific codes if the license is revoked/suspended) and that the applicant has not previously had suspensions or serious accidents (if revocations/suspensions are cleared or there were serious issues the record is returned as licensed instead of eligible).

chessman

Interestingly, the case appears to have been assigned to Judge Furman (the same judge who handled the census question case).

Beltway2A

If evidence continues to come out detailing the ways DHS considered retribution against NYS, they should have a pretty easy job of making that argument. The plan to shut down TSA Precheck lines in airports throughout NY was particularly egregious.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ords-sanctuary

GUWonder

So the driving license and car registration info is “critical” to GE for CBP to process GE members coming in by road from Canada, but it’s not “critical” when the GE member has a driving license issued by say a European country and is driving in on a rental car? This talk about CBP critically needing all this info to do its job is just an excuse — one of many excuses — for trying to justify DHS/CBP using GE as a pressure point to try to change state law to suit the federal government.