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VOX - TSA Pre✓: It absolutely shouldnt exist, and is absolutely an incredible value

VOX - TSA Pre✓: It absolutely shouldnt exist, and is absolutely an incredible value

Old Sep 14, 2019, 7:23 pm
  #16  
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There's a reason we called this "ExtortionCheck"

Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.

The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
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Old Sep 15, 2019, 7:33 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.

The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
Imagine that! The creation of a preferential class system in air travel before you get on the plane. The richer you are the better treatment you get. That's so Commie!
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
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Old Sep 16, 2019, 5:44 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.

The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
DHS/TSA's way of catering to a nomenclatura -- whether relatively privileged members of the private or public sector -- continues in a way that would make the Soviet Commies and its legacy leader Putin proud; but, as has been shown with Global Entry, the benefits granted to the privileged nomenclatura class are subject to being taken away by the government willing and able to strip/deny membership or to make a membership benefit contingent upon the whims or program of the applicable government powers. As has been seen increasingly, GE membership doesn't mean that GE members will necessarily be treated better than the non-privileged proletariat masses entering the US at US airports of entry. Much the same can happen to TSA PreCheck users.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 16, 2019 at 5:49 am
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Old Sep 16, 2019, 5:49 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by rickg523
Imagine that! The creation of a preferential class system in air travel before you get on the plane. The richer you are the better treatment you get. That's so Commie!
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
There's a difference between the government creating a privileged class and a private entity doing so.
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Old Sep 17, 2019, 3:11 am
  #20  
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Going back to history, TSA PreCheck was not really designed for general public.

It was designed for the purpose of expediting travelers who were deemed low risk, like frequent flyer. Hence, enrollment was not available at that time.

Now - TSA sees this as a cash cow. Hence, encouraging everyone to get it or sponsor it.

FWIW - when the writer of the article has to pay for TSA PreCheck, he really does not know a thing or 2 about TSA PreCheck.

(Note - I have never paid directly for TSA PreCheck.)
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Old Sep 17, 2019, 10:11 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by rickg523
Imagine that! The creation of a preferential class system in air travel before you get on the plane. The richer you are the better treatment you get. That's so Commie!
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
"Pay more, get more" is perfectly acceptable in regards to the voluntary purchase of goods or services from an individual or business.

However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.

The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
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Old Sep 17, 2019, 10:33 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by WillCAD
"Pay more, get more" is perfectly acceptable in regards to the voluntary purchase of goods or services from an individual or business.

However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.

The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
In this case wouldn't it be "Pay More, Get Less"?
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Old Sep 17, 2019, 10:40 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by WillCAD
"Pay more, get more" is perfectly acceptable in regards to the voluntary purchase of goods or services from an individual or business.

However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.

The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
You are omitting the fact that Pre-Check requires a background check and an ongoing DHS link to one's tickets on a per use basis.

While the people on FT tend to pass that background check, it is likely the case that higher risk people do not bother to apply or, when they apply and are rejected, do not whine about it on FT or elsewhere.

The arguments made here about privilege only apply if the service is available to all willing to shell out the fee. That was the argument made about "premium" lines back when those were still meaningful and it is why TSA got out of the business of policing them.
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Old Sep 18, 2019, 10:17 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
You are omitting the fact that Pre-Check requires a background check and an ongoing DHS link to one's tickets on a per use basis.

While the people on FT tend to pass that background check, it is likely the case that higher risk people do not bother to apply or, when they apply and are rejected, do not whine about it on FT or elsewhere.

The arguments made here about privilege only apply if the service is available to all willing to shell out the fee. That was the argument made about "premium" lines back when those were still meaningful and it is why TSA got out of the business of policing them.
I have no idea what you're saying, but let me say this:

This isn't about privilege or egalitarianism, it's about rights and freedoms.

TSA has said, you must give up freedom to get on a plane - which means, you get to choose which of your rights is infringed upon, freedom of movement, or freedom from unnecessary search and seizure. Sure, sure, I know, the Supreme Court declared that administrative screenings are Constitutional, but the ruling also said that the screening "does not exceed constitutional limitations provided that the screening process is no more extensive nor intensive than necessary, in the light of current technology, to detect the presence of weapons or explosives, that it is confined in good faith to that purpose, and that potential passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly." And in my opinion, most of TSA's current screening methodologies and procedures are far more extensive and invasive than need be to find WEI; and also not confined in good faith to that purposes (since ID checks, interrogations, and examination of any printed material are obviously aimed at discovering criminal activity, not WEI). TSA also asserts that you're not allowed to stop the screening and leave the checkpoint once screening has begun, which not only constitutes an illegal detention by government actors, but negates the SCOTUS requirement that a screening be avoidable by electing not to fly in order to be Constitutional.

So we have a false choice - you may have your rights abridged in one way (illegal searches and seizures) or another way (severe restrictions on the means which facilitate the right to travel and freely associate).

Then, of course, there is PreCheck, which is merely the government offering a third false choice - voluntarily surrender one right in order to (ostensibly) reduce the violations of your other rights.

Picking White Simms over Blue Simms doesn't mean you voted for Alfonse Simms. Paying $85 every three years to be allowed to vote for Red Simms doesn't really make you part of a privileged class, or give you any more rights or freedoms, either.
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Old Oct 30, 2019, 12:17 pm
  #25  
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It is expensive. How judgmental - people who can afford airline ticket do not have money left. Check the average social security payments. Check avg. take home pay. Check the avg. savings. We are already paying in general taxes and specific travel taxes for all this checking.
In egalitarian USA - creation of the privileged class is UNAMERICAN.
The first to be booted out of the airports should be CLEAR. CLEAR does nothing to increase the security. Clear creates more privilege that jumps over already privileged TSA-PREviliged class.
Your comment is deplorable. You have the right to express your opinion - but it does not mean that your opinion is based on any facts or reasons.
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Old Oct 31, 2019, 8:18 am
  #26  
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I don't see how anything can be considered an exceptional value if you might get it or not, on any particular day, based on the whims of TSA. Why should the cost be any higher than the actual cost of the background check? You good folks do know that TSA keeps a significant percentage of the fee charged for Pre Check?
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Old Oct 31, 2019, 8:32 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I don't see how anything can be considered an exceptional value if you might get it or not, on any particular day, based on the whims of TSA. Why should the cost be any higher than the actual cost of the background check? You good folks do know that TSA keeps a significant percentage of the fee charged for Pre Check?
"Of the $85 fee, $38 goes to the TSA, and the FBI gets $12.50 for handling the criminal check, $34.50 goes to Identogo/Morpho." This is somewhat old but probably still in the ballpark.
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