VOX - TSA Pre✓: It absolutely shouldnt exist, and is absolutely an incredible value
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
There's a reason we called this "ExtortionCheck"
Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,254
Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Many others and I have written over many years about how this is nothing but extortion and identical to the Communist system of "privileges." Many of us wrote about how this was a brilliant move on the TSA's part to both create a "privileged class" and to silence criticism from an important group: frequent flyers. The government created a privilege that they can take away at any time for any reason or for no reason. If you have this privilege, you think highly of yourself and you are never going to criticize the government for fear of losing your privilege. This is pure and simple extortion, and several million travelers have bought it hook, line and sinker.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
The non-Communist reason is simply that the U.S. Government cannot and will not ever admit that it went way overboard spending billions of taxpayer dollars and committing sexual assault on its citizens for a threat that simply didn't exist. "Anything for security" is about as bi-partisan as you can get.
Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 16, 2019 at 5:49 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Imagine that! The creation of a preferential class system in air travel before you get on the plane. The richer you are the better treatment you get. That's so Commie!
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
Going back to history, TSA PreCheck was not really designed for general public.
It was designed for the purpose of expediting travelers who were deemed low risk, like frequent flyer. Hence, enrollment was not available at that time.
Now - TSA sees this as a cash cow. Hence, encouraging everyone to get it or sponsor it.
FWIW - when the writer of the article has to pay for TSA PreCheck, he really does not know a thing or 2 about TSA PreCheck.
(Note - I have never paid directly for TSA PreCheck.)
It was designed for the purpose of expediting travelers who were deemed low risk, like frequent flyer. Hence, enrollment was not available at that time.
Now - TSA sees this as a cash cow. Hence, encouraging everyone to get it or sponsor it.
FWIW - when the writer of the article has to pay for TSA PreCheck, he really does not know a thing or 2 about TSA PreCheck.
(Note - I have never paid directly for TSA PreCheck.)
#21
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,329
Imagine that! The creation of a preferential class system in air travel before you get on the plane. The richer you are the better treatment you get. That's so Commie!
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
Wait a minute, that's not Communistic at all. Commies give government officials privileges. Preferential boarding for military personnel is more communistic than letting rich people purchase privileges. Which sounds a lot like garden variety capitalism.
As for buying silence, I'd reckon a great majority of posters on this forum carry Pre-check. And this sure as hell ain't no TSA lovefest.
BTW, do you use Pre-check? Has it turned you into a communist drone?
However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.
The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
"Pay more, get more" is perfectly acceptable in regards to the voluntary purchase of goods or services from an individual or business.
However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.
The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.
The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
"Pay more, get more" is perfectly acceptable in regards to the voluntary purchase of goods or services from an individual or business.
However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.
The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
However, "Pay more, get more" is completely UNACCEPTABLE in regards to Constitutionally-protected civil rights, such as freedom of movement, freedom of association, and equal protection under the law.
The government is essentially charging you to keep your 4th Amendment rights less violated (not UN, just LESS), and in the process it gathers personal data about you via coercion that it has no right to collect by force.
While the people on FT tend to pass that background check, it is likely the case that higher risk people do not bother to apply or, when they apply and are rejected, do not whine about it on FT or elsewhere.
The arguments made here about privilege only apply if the service is available to all willing to shell out the fee. That was the argument made about "premium" lines back when those were still meaningful and it is why TSA got out of the business of policing them.
#24
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,329
You are omitting the fact that Pre-Check requires a background check and an ongoing DHS link to one's tickets on a per use basis.
While the people on FT tend to pass that background check, it is likely the case that higher risk people do not bother to apply or, when they apply and are rejected, do not whine about it on FT or elsewhere.
The arguments made here about privilege only apply if the service is available to all willing to shell out the fee. That was the argument made about "premium" lines back when those were still meaningful and it is why TSA got out of the business of policing them.
While the people on FT tend to pass that background check, it is likely the case that higher risk people do not bother to apply or, when they apply and are rejected, do not whine about it on FT or elsewhere.
The arguments made here about privilege only apply if the service is available to all willing to shell out the fee. That was the argument made about "premium" lines back when those were still meaningful and it is why TSA got out of the business of policing them.
This isn't about privilege or egalitarianism, it's about rights and freedoms.
TSA has said, you must give up freedom to get on a plane - which means, you get to choose which of your rights is infringed upon, freedom of movement, or freedom from unnecessary search and seizure. Sure, sure, I know, the Supreme Court declared that administrative screenings are Constitutional, but the ruling also said that the screening "does not exceed constitutional limitations provided that the screening process is no more extensive nor intensive than necessary, in the light of current technology, to detect the presence of weapons or explosives, that it is confined in good faith to that purpose, and that potential passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly." And in my opinion, most of TSA's current screening methodologies and procedures are far more extensive and invasive than need be to find WEI; and also not confined in good faith to that purposes (since ID checks, interrogations, and examination of any printed material are obviously aimed at discovering criminal activity, not WEI). TSA also asserts that you're not allowed to stop the screening and leave the checkpoint once screening has begun, which not only constitutes an illegal detention by government actors, but negates the SCOTUS requirement that a screening be avoidable by electing not to fly in order to be Constitutional.
So we have a false choice - you may have your rights abridged in one way (illegal searches and seizures) or another way (severe restrictions on the means which facilitate the right to travel and freely associate).
Then, of course, there is PreCheck, which is merely the government offering a third false choice - voluntarily surrender one right in order to (ostensibly) reduce the violations of your other rights.
Picking White Simms over Blue Simms doesn't mean you voted for Alfonse Simms. Paying $85 every three years to be allowed to vote for Red Simms doesn't really make you part of a privileged class, or give you any more rights or freedoms, either.
#25
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: USAir
Posts: 429
It is expensive. How judgmental - people who can afford airline ticket do not have money left. Check the average social security payments. Check avg. take home pay. Check the avg. savings. We are already paying in general taxes and specific travel taxes for all this checking.
In egalitarian USA - creation of the privileged class is UNAMERICAN.
The first to be booted out of the airports should be CLEAR. CLEAR does nothing to increase the security. Clear creates more privilege that jumps over already privileged TSA-PREviliged class.
Your comment is deplorable. You have the right to express your opinion - but it does not mean that your opinion is based on any facts or reasons.
In egalitarian USA - creation of the privileged class is UNAMERICAN.
The first to be booted out of the airports should be CLEAR. CLEAR does nothing to increase the security. Clear creates more privilege that jumps over already privileged TSA-PREviliged class.
Your comment is deplorable. You have the right to express your opinion - but it does not mean that your opinion is based on any facts or reasons.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
I don't see how anything can be considered an exceptional value if you might get it or not, on any particular day, based on the whims of TSA. Why should the cost be any higher than the actual cost of the background check? You good folks do know that TSA keeps a significant percentage of the fee charged for Pre Check?
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I don't see how anything can be considered an exceptional value if you might get it or not, on any particular day, based on the whims of TSA. Why should the cost be any higher than the actual cost of the background check? You good folks do know that TSA keeps a significant percentage of the fee charged for Pre Check?