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US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights

US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights

Old Sep 5, 2019, 8:47 am
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US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights

I know that this thread is several years old but Terrorist Watch List lawsuits have taken a long time to move through the judicial system.

US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights

The government’s watchlist of more than 1 million people identified as “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of those placed on it, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

The ruling from U.S. District Judge Anthony Trenga grants summary judgment to nearly two dozen Muslim U.S. citizens who had challenged the watchlist with the help of a Muslim civil-rights group, the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
No remedy imposed by the court just yet.
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Old Sep 5, 2019, 11:58 am
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Originally Posted by mahohmei
- Would a Bad Guy never think to buy a ticket with a fake name, print a real BP with a fake name, use a computer to make a fake BP with a real name, use the latter to traverse the TSA, and the former to board the flight?
No, definitely not. Bad guys are de facto stupider than TSA. They have to be.
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Old Sep 6, 2019, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I know that this thread is several years old but Terrorist Watch List lawsuits have taken a long time to move through the judicial system.

US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights



No remedy imposed by the court just yet.
The only satisfactory remedy in my opinion would be to declare the no fly list unconstitutional on its face and order its immediate abolition.
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Old Sep 6, 2019, 3:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
The only satisfactory remedy in my opinion would be to declare the no fly list unconstitutional on its face and order its immediate abolition.
Dollars to donuts that isn't going to happen. Be interesting to see how the court spins this.
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Old Sep 6, 2019, 4:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Dollars to donuts that isn't going to happen. Be interesting to see how the court spins this.
I'm sure the Deep State will prevent any truly meaningful remedy from happening.
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Old Sep 7, 2019, 7:40 am
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
The only satisfactory remedy in my opinion would be to declare the no fly list unconstitutional on its face and order its immediate abolition.
Can you imagine what checkpoint screening would be like if the list were dissolved?
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Old Sep 7, 2019, 9:39 am
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Main DHS watchlist (TSDB + DHS TRIP) ruled unconstitutional

Full details, link to opinion, my extracts of the major holdings, CAIR's news conference, multiple news reports, etc etc on my Twitter thread here:
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Old Sep 7, 2019, 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Can you imagine what checkpoint screening would be like if the list were dissolved?
Exactly the same, minus searches for ID, and minus having to report your name to "Secure Flight".
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Old Sep 7, 2019, 1:50 pm
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Originally Posted by saizai
Exactly the same, minus searches for ID, and minus having to report your name to "Secure Flight".
NFL aside, they'll still match ID against boarding pass to ensure that only ticketed passengers are admitted to the sterile area (which was the original stated version of the ID check, anyway).

I suspect that in the unlikely event that the NFL is ever abolished, they'll instigate some other nonsense instead, such as running a criminal background check on every ID at the c/p (at a cost of hundreds of millions to make instant real-time checks possible).
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Old Sep 7, 2019, 5:20 pm
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Originally Posted by saizai
Exactly the same, minus searches for ID, and minus having to report your name to "Secure Flight".
I disagree as I believe that TSA would increase the "thoroughness" of searches believing that terrorists would be flocking to the airport in order to wreck havoc if they can't keep people off planes.
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
I disagree as I believe that TSA would increase the "thoroughness" of searches believing that terrorists would be flocking to the airport in order to wreck havoc if they can't keep people off planes.
Unfortunately likely true. It's a mentality thing.

I think it would make a difference to TSA leadership and the public if there were an incident at a single airport that *forced* them to allow a few thousand passengers to fly unscreened. E.g., hurricane bearing down on the city or just passed, large number of moms/babies/sympathetic-people with tickets to get out, all of the screening equpment or screeners somehow offline or unavailable (e.g., flood in the checkpoint airport). It would have to be a big enough number of people that hand screening/searching every bag/person wasn't an option (if TSA contingency planning even allows for that).

In all likelihood, nothing terroristic would happen, and then TSA management and the public might start to have to face the reality that there isn't a sleeper cell of terrorists waiting outside the checkpoint at every domestic airport every morning waiting for a chance to pounce.

A lighter weight version of this would be if TSA randomly (true random) intentionally let one out of every 10000 passengers go through the checkpoint completely unscreened. (passenger chosen at ID checker, no advance warning to passenger or screeners). It's a small enough number that it would have zero statistical impact on likelihood of a bad event, especially considering the guns and knives TSA misses daily when the do try to screen.

But it's a big enough number to make every screener, 3-striper, TSM, and FSD have to cognitively process that airport screening is about probabilities and risk management. And that given the sieve-like nature of the screening process, a single, random, transient blip in the process doesn't justify panic (terminal dumps, reverse screening thousands of passengers at their destination, etc.)
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